Is This Practice Getting More Common...?

[Ryuden]

Since 2006 where my watch hobby start back during the old Singapore Yahoo Auction and now here in SRC, I have been doing couple of buying,selling and trading watches and plenty of meet ups and get together.

There was never a need to sign any form of dealing agreement/contract or taking note of ic numbers and anything of such except twice...

Once I had to signed an acknowledgement letter (which he had prepared before we met) to this buyer who bought a $280 Seiko Honda F1 (yes $280!) stating the Seiko I am selling is not a fake. I had never seen a fake Seiko all my life. Modded yes, but not fake.

Another was to sign yet another form of contract/agreement (again prepared in advance before meeting up) from the seller stating that the item, a Longines Legend Diver, was in working condition and no faults or whatsoever.

And only recently I encountered another prospective buyer for one of the watches I posted. He mentioned that if I agreed with his offered price, he need to take down my IC as he doesn't know me. Really? My IC?

I am not against taking down my details (however photocopy of my IC is a no no) but isn't what forums like this for? Can't the buyers check into details from whom they are buying from? Those who frequent and constantly/actively engaging forum participants be it in the forum itself or personal meetings, and also the widely exposed contact details are highly unlikely trying to make a quick buck out of you. If they are, they are the quickest one to be caught as many forum participants have either contacted them via the phone/site or met them in person.

I realized that as of late, a couple of buyers have been hit with non disclosure of the item they purchased and some even got conned into purchasing fake items. However in my observations, these are from sellers whom are not a frequent forum participants and no one has experienced dealing or ever met with them before. But none of which I see are from forum participents whom are active. Though I see the need of covering oneself, but is it necessary to do this every time?

Is this practice getting more common? Has this ever happened to you?

Cheers.


p.s. I thought of suggesting to the mods about a reference check sub forum under feedback though I know there is the iTrade notification where the purpose is similar as a reference check but some are not familiar with the system and the reference check sub forum could be the more direct approach to check the seller background.

[kel12]

Me & buddy spent above $18k for 2 timepieces from seller's stash of watches in his nice posh private apartment... He showed us his ic and made 2 copies right in front of us... Without us asking... That adds an extra touch to the sale

[Ryuden]

Me & buddy spent above $18k for 2 timepieces from seller's stash of watches in his nice posh private apartment... He showed us his ic and made 2 copies right in front of us... Without us asking... That adds an extra touch to the sale

I agree that that's a nice touch considering the amount of cash changing hands. He would have been comfortable as he's dealing at his own place plus adding extra security element by providing 2 copies of his IC.

On my cases, its dealing over at the other party's place and I still have to provide mine.

Even selling to pre owned shops, they never had my IC copied, just details. Not sure if its even necessary to begin with.

Thanks for your input Kel.

Cheers.

[Ryuden]

There was once a buyer whom purchased my watch and he paid a bit in cash and a large sum in personal cheque. He suggested that I took a photo of his IC incase he runs away or his cheque bounce and I got freak out. I didn't take any photo of his IC as he himself is using a post-paid line and I believe it's traceable unlike some con artiste who uses pre-paid lines. And the cheque bears his name which means the bank whom issued him the cheque would surely have his details.

Afterall, Singapore is so small. Got give IC or not, if kena con chances are you will still get caught.

Cheers.

[Watcha]

Photocopy of ic is a bit over for me. Buying at forum always carry a risk. Especially if you are not familiar with the seller.

Buyer should do some homework and know a bit of the watch they want to buy and the seller.

For high price items, taking ic won't help much IMO. Better to get service centers or reputable shop to authenticate if unsure.
The police can take ages for such cases, and even they can find the guy, they may not be able to help you to recover anything.

[3echo]

I dun mind if the other party reciprocrate by giving me same
amt of info and a copy of his nric.

btw, does anyone knows if loansharks accept photocopied nric?(*Weak attempt of humor, but laced with genuine concern)

[Ryuden]

Photocopy of ic is a bit over for me. Buying at forum always carry a risk. Especially if you are not familiar with the seller.

Buyer should do some homework and know a bit of the watch they want to buy and the seller.

For high price items, taking ic won't help much IMO. Better to get service centers or reputable shop to authenticate if unsure.
The police can take ages for such cases, and even they can find the guy, they may not be able to help you to recover anything.

I am with you. Photocopy of IC is unnecessary. If too unsure of the watch and especially the seller, best is to get it authenticate.

Luckily some bros here who got tricked into buying fakes got things resolved their way and with the help of some info from forum participants. This is what I am talking about. The connectivity among participants which have experienced it before and sharing it here or others who have info/details related to the case.

Cheers.

[Ryuden]

I dun mind if the other party reciprocrate by giving me same
amt of info and a copy of his nric.

btw, does anyone knows if loansharks accept photocopied nric?(*Weak attempt of humor, but laced with genuine concern)

It might seems like a humor but that's the other thing I was thinking about. I don't know you, you don't know me, and why would I pass you a copy of my IC? Irrelevant right? I don't know to what extend can a copied IC does but I sure don't want to find out by passing it to someone whom I might only met that once and only.

I copied a lot of customer's ICs in my line of work and we are strictly reminded not to keep any personal documents (customers's IC/cheques) to ourselves as these are confidential documents.

Now you got me thinking, ya ha, can ahlong accept photocopied ICs?

[triton]

i agree with thread starter that in the past, noting down of seller's details is rare in the past. however, it seems more common these days. this could be the result of more people getting on the internet. hence, with more experiences shared online. they become more cautious. as such buyer will want a peace of mind. i will however politely decline to have my details handed over as the buyers do not have such rights to my information. i will instead suggest that the buyer find a watch technician of his/her choice to get the watch checked before proceeding.

to protect a seller's interest, i will ask for full payment of the agreed transacted price before the watch is handed over to the technician. on the agreement that if all conditions is agreed prior the check. if the buyer is not comfortable with such agreement, then i dont deal.

on the suggestion of a seller's check section, it is like i said before same/similar to iTrader. the point now is how to get people to use it. i take effort to write step by step on several things in the forum faq. but it seems that not many people bother to even go to the section to read it. you will be surprise how many pm and emails i get daily from members asking me why i cannot post in this forum. where to post, etc. how do i get members who dont seem to read pm, read forum faq, to do them?

[Ender]

In the course of this hobby, i probably sold/purchased around 100 pieces?
So far, only one request for my IC number, not a copy, just flash my IC to buyer.

If someone were to ask for a copy I will reject - I am just not comfortable with someone that I am not familiar with at all holding onto a copy of my IC.

At the end of the day, as seller, I disclose what I think is relevant about a watch I am selling.

More often than not, what I sell is a used piece so I will not give any guarantee as to its performance, not because it's faulty but even if the watch's served me well for over the last 2 years, I really do not know if it decides to stop working the moment it is sold.
In fact, I tend to describe my watch 'worse' than it is because I do not want to create any misunderstanding.

If buyer requires more info, sure, ask and if I know, I will provide. Of course, if buyer asks me questions like why first original owner decides to sell, how would I, as the 3rd owner, ever know????

If buyer is comfortable with the watch and the info provided, we deal.

If buyer is still not comfortable, I very much prefer we don't deal at all.

Ender

[Jubilee]

What can one do with a photocopied NRIC? Not sure why OP is so concerned and likewise why people want a copy of sellers' NRIC.

[CFC]

i met with similar seller who ask me to sign an agreement for the watch that i'm selling to ensure my watch is not faulty and etc which i dun feel comfortable even thou the watch has no issue and called off the deal.

in the end i was being accuse of hiding the fact that my watch is faulty and etc which i just let him be.

i've bought sold watches over the years and those who deal with me before as a seller knows that once we agree on prices,i will pass them the cash when we met then i proceed to check the watch.

those who deal with me before as a buyer knows that i will always tell them to check all those important point like adjusting the date & time,wind and shake the watch and etc to ensure that everything is good and after which i will tell them to contact me if there's any problem with the watch and i will try my best to help out.

[Jamiewabbit]

Abt the part that he watch may be faulty or not, I think unless its a shop with a watchmaker, the seller can't teally promise much. I mean to be fair the seller is not a watch maker who can pop open and ensure the movement is all good, timing and water resistance is ok. Personally for me, after purchase, go for a full service. At least thats what I do after I am sure abt the watch. ie: whats the pt of arguing if a nice dial is ruined by water ingress for instance. I wouldnt take the chance. So I usually factor that cost in. (2-300)

For transactions, I will use inter bank transfer, at least for both parties there is an electronic trail, if anything goes wrong. But so far it has always been good experiences here.

[triton]

what is relevant to you(seller) may not be relevant buyer, vice versa.

the statement you just made will raise question.

At the end of the day, as seller, I disclose what I think is relevant about a watch I am selling.

More often than not, what I sell is a used piece so I will not give any guarantee as to its performance, not because it's faulty but even if the watch's served me well for over the last 2 years, I really do not know if it decides to stop working the moment it is sold.

In fact, I tend to describe my watch 'worse' than it is because I do not want to create any misunderstanding.
Ender

[triton]

u never know what one can do with a photocopied of NRIC as of yet because you have yet to encounter if your information falls into the wrong hands

What can one do with a photocopied NRIC? Not sure why OP is so concerned and likewise why people want a copy of sellers' NRIC.