"What defines a Good Condition Vintage"

[edimars]

Thanks...edimars, I am currently getting a feel of what is available in our local and oversea market. I would love to post some vintage pictures for comments; however it will be unethical to do so as negative comments may affect their sales later on.

I am trying to understand ‘Form and Function’, while nice form or looks are important factors of a vintage; providing the feel of aged. Then again, it can also aged beyond function where tritium markers can hardly be seen at night. It goes along with the dial and hands as well.

As stated by inputs, how do you preserve Dial and Hands, as I understand that all vintage will have evenly faded markers. If the watch was kept in safe or drawer most of its life, will it fade as the same process? While age and early out of production model qualifies it to be vintage, is the aged form/look an important factor?

If I am to pay premium, on a specific model over another, at least I know what to look for and understanding the ageing process that took placed. Cheers!

Negative comments can be avoided.. you can post and ask for PM reply for comments..

Tritium no longer glow.. That's what vintage lovers will look for..

Many collectors believed that tritium well kept/ preserved in total darkness and moisture free will have good result for nice and even patinas.. I'm convinced too but this process takes years..

To me, all acrylic crystals are vintage, and some sapphire with matte dials above 30years consider vintage too.. 16800/ 16660 etc..

Again the above are my personnel oipinion..

One example of 16660:

[taxico]

I am currently getting a feel of what is available in our local and oversea market.

local pieces tend to be over-priced. i have yet to buy a vintage piece (sports rolex) from a local seller. i would advise that you look to VRM.

I am trying to understand ‘Form and Function’, while nice form or looks are important factors of a vintage; providing the feel of aged. Then again, it can also aged beyond function where tritium markers can hardly be seen at night. It goes along with the dial and hands as well.

non-glowing tritium is something you'll come to "appreciate" or get used to; especially if you're used to luminova, superluminova or other bright variants (like seiko's lumibrite).

i have seen matte 5513 service dials that are luminova: nice, clean and white but the 6 o'clock position indicates tritium. the best of both worlds, maybe? to a purist, maybe not!

As stated by inputs, how do you preserve Dial and Hands, as I understand that all vintage will have evenly faded markers. If the watch was kept in safe or drawer most of its life, will it fade the same process? While age and early out of production model qualifies it to be vintage, is the aged form an important factor?

the best place to keep dial and hands are in a rolex oyster case - provided it has been properly serviced AND sealed... if you were to get an RSC-trained ah-pek to service your watch at the back of his flat... sure, he'll probably do a good job...

but singapore's humidity is 75-85% and when the watch is sealed, that much moisture remains TRAPPED within. what sort of damage that does to a dial - i can only guess...

at RSC or at least a place with good air-conditioning, the humidity level drops to a much acceptable level.

or:

if you buy a 5513 that has been well used and never serviced for its whole life: you should expect the seals to have deteriorated to a point that some amount of moisture will build up within the oyster case - not to the point that the glass will fog, but enough to damage parts - no matter how slight.

as for the patination... it is quite divided, but in my experience, a watch that has been kept in the dark most of its life tend to have a browner patina on its tritium plots/hands. those that have been used tend to be paler.

and if you regularly expose a watch that has been kept in the dark to UV, it will lighten up gradually (although your results may vary). the opposite is also true.

by going through pictures of the various FS pieces on VRM, you will get a feel for what "speaks" to you. age and aging's subjective... you should decide what you're comfortable with and the potential of each piece.

[marlin005]

To me, all acrylic crystals are vintage, and some sapphire with matte dials above 30years consider vintage too.. 16800/ 16660 etc..

Again the above are my personnel oipinion..

That is a nice vintage Sea Dweller, if I have been a good student with all the recent info, a Transitional Matte, traditionally known as the ’Triple Six’ I’d believe.

Thanks… edimars, for your inputs in regards to tritium markers. I am sure readers here will have a better understanding of the aging process as much as I did. Thanks for sharing a good example of what a decent vintage should look like.

From what I can see from the single picture, is a fine example of the tritium based compound that has aged hence gaining yellowish patina. The tritium markers on the Swiss T<25T dial during the period is more thinly layered and flattish like the 1665, as compared with ones made in the 60’s and early 70’s domed markers.

Internally, the Dial and Hands have all turn patina evenly and well matched to assume that the set is most likely original to the watch. There is no indication of corrosion which probably states the condition of the watch seal in good condition. The markers without the metal rings on the edges likely indicate that, it is an early version of the model perhaps ’78 to ’82 of the ‘Triple Six’.

This model is perhaps a major move by Rolex, incorporating Automatic Movement and Sapphire Crystal. The case is thick solid and encompassing a solid link bracelet too.

The tritium pearl on the bezel has evenly aged with the dial and hands which again, likely to indicate its originality to the watch. On the same note, it reflects that certain amount of care was taken to ensure that the aluminum inserts with the tritium pearl stays intact. Some of vintages have them missing or have been replaced with a new one.

The markers on the inserts looks aged however clearly visible, the edges of the bezels looks well maintained. I cannot see the bevels and lugs clearly from the pictures.

Overall, it’s a well maintained vintage, a piece anyone would be proud to own. With additional time, it will surely age with grace. If I may boldly rate its worth….. US$5K, easy. It’s a journey, I am still learning, your views are appreciated. Thanks.

[marlin005]

That's an awesome writeup...taxico, with great insights. I'm taking in every bit of it here. Wow, thats awesome piece of vinatge, I don't how to describe it......Hahaha LOL! It's a 1680, I'd believe. The history and journey itself should be more interesting than the form. Rolex do make tuff watches don't they, the sealing is great though. The scratches on the arcylic looks deep, wonder what happened to the owner? Hehehe Cheers!

[edimars]

Well, to sell this at US5k is easy... if you are offered to buy a similar condition at US8k grab it haha...

Here's the bevelling,

[tarantina]

a watch with all its original parts, and still in working condition.

[taxico]

a watch with all its original parts, and still in working condition.

you would be surprised how many watches fitting your description DO NOT fit most people's definition of a "good condition vintage"... i've posted a picture in the previous page illustrating just that.