"What defines a Good Condition Vintage"

[marlin005]

Hello everyone,
I am new here in regards to Vintage and I would like to enquire from experts here, “How to define, what a good Vintage should be”.

I have viewed pieces for sale here in the forum that looks incredibly new, for some even as old 25 yrs. Does a good condition Vintage refers to the condition of the Bezel, Dial and Hands? Should they be well kept with no corrosion or look relatively new? Does that refers to, refurbishing necessary parts to make the watch look well kept and looking good in condition.

On the other hand, I have seen some that look worn out and scratched on the Bezel, slight scratches on the acrylics/crystals, slight corrosion on the hands and faded or aged Dial faces and markings. Are such conditions referred to as vintage or aged through time.

Do we actually refer to the ‘engine’ and deem it as good condition or everything refers to the look of a vintage only. Does a vintage need to look old and worn to be a good condition vintage? or one that is well kept looking like new? So what defines a good condition vintage…..Your views please.Thanks

[Oceanklassik]

To me, a reasonable conditioned, all original vintage watch, is a good vintage watch

[marlin005]

To me, a reasonable conditioned, all original vintage watch, is a good vintage watch

Thank you, If the vintage had a dial and hands replace with original rolex parts, which maynot be from the same period, will that be considered original?

[Oceanklassik]

No, of course. I said "all original". Can brudders edimars and caeden and triton pl cum in?

[edimars]

My personnel preference for a good vintage (sports model)

Dial:
1) must be original correct to the case serial
2) marker patina must be naturally even faded.
3) no redone dial, not obvious light spots slight flaws are acceptable.

Hands:
1) must be geniune (many after market nowadays)
2) same tritium patina colour as dial marker
3) light corrosion acceptable as they should be.

Case and case back:
1) unpolished case preferred, retain bevels on lugs.
2) moderate scratches/ dents are acceptable.
3) visible serial and model no.
4) No deep pittings, slight acceptable but not on gasket sealing circumference.

Movement (Engine)
1) clean without oxidation.
2) correct movement model.

Crown:
1) must be genuine parts, I don't mind upgraded tri-lock

Bracelet:
1) prefer original to the watch if not correct model type in good condition.

Bezel and Insert:
1) must be geniune (many after market nowadays)
2) evenly faded, slight marks are acceptable.
3) tritium dot in good shape prefer same patina with dial.

With Box and Papers is a bonus but not essential..

[feilong108]

Power! Thanks for sharing ...learn so much from this single post

[KuchingKu]

Top vintage got top vintage criteria and price. Average vintage got average vintage and price. Lousy vintage got lousy vintage and price.

Will need to read, see, feel, own enough to tell what is top, average or lousy. Areas to assess are already mentioned by edimars.

Most of all....you need to know how to love and admire them. It is a constant hunt for that slightly better piece.

[marlin005]

My personnel preference for a good vintage (sports model)

Dial:
1) must be original correct to the case serial
2) marker patina must be naturally even faded.
3) no redone dial, not obvious light spots slight flaws are acceptable.

Hands:
1) must be geniune (many after market nowadays)
2) same tritium patina colour as dial marker
3) light corrosion acceptable as they should be.

Thank all for your valuable inputs, edimars. Can I assume that a vintage model with a Dial face and hands that look White and new, refers a one that has been replaced? Should all vintage Dials and hands have a faded colored tritium patina due to aging? Will dial and patina fade beyond function due to age and require a replacement or relumed so to speak?

If a model in the mid sixties replaces a Dial/Hands/Bezel inserts with Rolex genuine parts for the designated model, will it still be a good vintage?
Thnaks for your replies, I need some clarity in regards to purchasing my 1st vintage.

[edimars]

My personnel preference for a good vintage (sports model)

Dial:
1) must be original correct to the case serial
2) marker patina must be naturally even faded.
3) no redone dial, not obvious light spots slight flaws are acceptable.

Hands:
1) must be geniune (many after market nowadays)
2) same tritium patina colour as dial marker
3) light corrosion acceptable as they should be.

Thank all for your valuable inputs, edimars. Can I assume that a vintage model with a Dial face and hands that look White and new, refers a one that has been replaced? Should all vintage Dials and hands have a faded colored tritium patina due to aging? Will dial and patina fade beyond function due to age and require a replacement or relumed so to speak?

If a model in the mid sixties replaces a Dial/Hands/Bezel inserts with Rolex genuine parts for the designated model, will it still be a good vintage?
Thnaks for your replies, I need some clarity in regards to purchasing my 1st vintage.

Well.. as I mentioned above, these are my personnel preference..
To me, most but not all dial markers will aged from cream to yellowish patina. Depending how well it was kept/ preserve..
There are at least a couple of dial variants on each model from different dial makers through out the production and a couple more produced after discontinued for replacement during service. if you spend some time google and research you will get the answers..

Particularly Rolex vintage, tritium will no longer glow after a decade or so apart from some early 55## models produced before 1968 (these dials will still glow for up to 30secs after exposed to strong light)
A relumed/ redone vintage dial will definitely drop its value..

I will not buy a sixties vintage with a newer look replacement dial/ hands although they are genuine parts. buy a new model instead...

Hope these helps

[kenlinliu1419]

Edimars, I 100% agree with you on all parts.

I would also like to add one other thing for vintage Rolex; I personally prefer non-polished watches to preserve the originality.

[taxico]

a. unpolished case (learn how to read the lugs and bevels). no pitting whatsoever, especially in gasket groves.

b. untouched dial in good condition (spotting/spiderweb = damage) and that it is appropriate for the serial number of the case.

tritium colors can change over time, from dark to light or from light to dark. just make sure the color tone on all plots are even.

everything else can be found to match the above - including hands and bezel pearl.

if the serial number has been scratched off or re-etched, learn how to tell if it's done at PH RSC or if it's genuinely worn off or if it's had a checkered past.

if the price is right, don't worry too much about the movement being in poor condition or an incorrect bridge - these are minor problems that can be rectified and don't interfere with a movement's longevity. as for parts: even movement plates can be sourced.

if the price is right, a vintage rolex with a replacement case can be a terrific daily watch.

some vintage subs get NEW twin-lock crowns when recently serviced at foreign RSCs. learn how to spot them - not a deal breaker!

i'm not hung up over box/papers and don't believe in paying a premium for it UNLESS they are cartier/tiffany & co watches.

these days, everything can be sourced and cobbled together: the price then gets marked up because many buyers are happy to pay a premium for what they THINK is original to the watch...

people can even cobble up a near-mint 9315 bracelet from different sources...!

don't rush into buying a vintage piece.

hold back first - the more time you have, the more you'll learn and the more money you can save. you will end up buying a better piece.

[marlin005]

a. unpolished case (learn how to read the lugs and bevels). no pitting whatsoever, especially in gasket groves.

b. untouched dial in good condition (spotting/spiderweb = damage) and that it is appropriate for the serial number of the case.

tritium colors can change over time, from dark to light or from light to dark. just make sure the color tone on all plots are even.

everything else can be found to match the above - including hands and bezel pearl.

if the serial number has been scratched off or re-etched, learn how to tell if it's done at PH RSC or if it's genuinely worn off or if it's had a checkered past.

if the price is right, don't worry too much about the movement being in poor condition or an incorrect bridge - these are minor problems that can be rectified and don't interfere with a movement's longevity. as for parts: even movement plates can be sourced.

if the price is right, a vintage rolex with a replacement case can be a terrific daily watch.

some vintage subs get NEW twin-lock crowns when recently serviced at foreign RSCs. learn how to spot them - not a deal breaker!

i'm not hung up over box/papers and don't believe in paying a premium for it UNLESS they are cartier/tiffany & co watches.

these days, everything can be sourced and cobbled together: the price then gets marked up because many buyers are happy to pay a premium for what they THINK is original to the watch...

people can even cobble up a near-mint 9315 bracelet from different sources...!

don't rush into buying a vintage piece.

hold back first - the more time you have, the more you'll learn and the more money you can save. you will end up buying a better piece.

Thank you for a solid piece of advice, taxico. For someone like myself who is new to vintage, it has been a learning and educational experience for me with all the valuable inputs. I totally agreed with you by not rushing into getting a vintage till you truly understand what to look out for or what are good attributes of a reasonable vintage.

The vintage market can be misleading, as I understand it to be. Have a out of production model, say 30yrs and looking really new or well kept, however does not even look like a vintage piece. On the other hand, an evenly worn or faded around aged piece which has a true look of a vintage which may not have all its original parts that came with the watch.

Perhaps a combination of both, with an out of production model with every mark and look of a vintage piece, in its best original condition. Apart from that, I think it really boils down to whether the exceptions and condition is acceptable to the buyer based on price.
Thank You.

[edimars]

One always got some kinda budget subject to condition and originality of a time piece..
Most importantly you need to ask yourself wether you like the watch! LOL..
I guess the Gurus here in this forum will give you further advise if you can post some pictures before committing the purchase

Good luck for your search!

[marlin005]

One always got some kinda budget subject to condition and originality of a time piece..
Most importantly you need to ask yourself wether you like the watch! LOL..
I guess the Gurus here in this forum will give you further advise if you can post some pictures before committing the purchase

Good luck for your search!

Thanks...edimars, I am currently getting a feel of what is available in our local and oversea market. I would love to post some vintage pictures for comments; however it will be unethical to do so as negative comments may affect their sales later on.

I am trying to understand ‘Form and Function’, while nice form or looks are important factors of a vintage; providing the feel of aged. Then again, it can also aged beyond function where tritium markers can hardly be seen at night. It goes along with the dial and hands as well.

As stated by inputs, how do you preserve Dial and Hands, as I understand that all vintage will have evenly faded markers. If the watch was kept in safe or drawer most of its life, will it fade as the same process? While age and early out of production model qualifies it to be vintage, is the aged form/look an important factor?

If I am to pay premium, on a specific model over another, at least I know what to look for and understanding the ageing process that took placed. Cheers!

[marlin005]

One always got some kinda budget subject to condition and originality of a time piece..
Most importantly you need to ask yourself wether you like the watch! LOL..
I guess the Gurus here in this forum will give you further advise if you can post some pictures before committing the purchase

Good luck for your search!

Thanks .....edimars, I am currently getting a feel of what is available in our local and oversea market. I would love to post some vintage pictures for comments; however it will be unethical to do so as negative comments may affect their sales later on.

I am trying to understand ‘Form and Function’, while nice form or looks are important factors of a vintage; providing the feel of aged. Then again, it can also aged beyond function where tritium markers can hardly be seen at night. It goes along with the dial and hands as well.

As stated by inputs, how do you preserve Dial and Hands, as I understand that all vintage will have evenly faded markers. If the watch was kept in safe or drawer most of its life, will it fade the same process? While age and early out of production model qualifies it to be vintage, is the aged form an important factor?

If I am to pay premium, on a specific model over another, at least I know what to look for and understanding the ageing process that took placed.
Cheers!