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Rolex Calibre 3000 - COSC or No COSC Thread

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  • #1

    Rolex Calibre 3000 - COSC or No COSC Thread

    The Rolex Calibre 300 was used in the following watches from 1990-2000:
    (1) Submariner No-Date Ref. 14060
    (2) Explorer 1 No-Date Ref. 14270


    We know that the Submariner No-Date does not have the words Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified (COSC) on its dial.




    Take a look at the Explorer 1 No-Date...


    The Explorer 1 is COSC Certified, with the words Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified printed.


    Since both watches uses similar movement (Cal. 3000), does this equate to the Submariner No-Date (with Cal. 3000) as also COSC Certified, except that Rolex did not send this particular model (Submariner No-Date) for COSC Certification...but the Explorer 1 was sent for COSC...?

    Can we conclude that the Submariner No-Date (Ref. 14060 with Cal. 3000) is also COSC except that the words COSC is not printed on its dial?


    Rolex lao jiaos, gurus and experts, any comments or conclusions...???
    [U] [/U]

    [COLOR="Blue"]4000ft = 1220m[/COLOR]

    [IMG]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/meyersound/moi-SD.jpg[/IMG]
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  • #2
    I would say....if no "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" not COSC certified.

    Probably how it works is that....both may use the same movement but 1 is tested 1 isn't. Doesn't mean that same movement both HAVE to be certified.

    Correct me if I am wrong


    Sometimes forgotten, but always contactable. Darkangel (2007-2014)

    Comment

    • #3
      Bro, u've already answered your question... if the watches have not been sent for COSC, it'll not bear the Chronometer label no matter what. So... as long as the 14060 is not sent for COSC, it will never be a Chronometer Certified watch.

      Since we're on this topic, I believe that even without COSC, most Rolex watches leavin the factory will be pretty accurate within COSC specifications. If it doesn't, most will just send it to RSC to regulate the timing and it'll function within COSC specs.

      However, as most of us do not live within time accuracy tolerances within 6 seconds deviation a day, COSC is just a marketing label to me
      "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
      --Groucho Marx--

      *For faster response, pls direct all questions to my email: [email protected] thanks!

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Darkangel View Post
        I would say....if no "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" not COSC certified.
        Definitely...Agree. No COSC printed = Not sent in for COSC Certification...

        Originally posted by Darkangel View Post
        Probably how it works is that....both may use the same movement but 1 is tested 1 isn't. Doesn't mean that same movement both HAVE to be certified.
        Consider 2 watches, Watch A and Watch B...
        Both watches have Same Engine, Different Casing

        So,
        Engine A = Casing A = COSC Certified
        Engine B = Casing B = Not sent for COSC Certification

        Conclusion,
        Enigne A = Engine B = COSC Certified

        True???
        [U] [/U]

        [COLOR="Blue"]4000ft = 1220m[/COLOR]

        [IMG]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/meyersound/moi-SD.jpg[/IMG]

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by meyersound View Post
          Consider 2 watches, Watch A and Watch B...
          Both watches have Same Engine, Different Casing

          So,
          Engine A = Casing A = COSC Certified
          Engine B = Casing B = Not sent for COSC Certification

          Conclusion,
          Enigne A = Engine B = COSC Certified

          True???
          Wrong.

          Engine A= Engine B yes...

          but...Engine A was tested so it's certified. Engine B may run just like engine B but never go through certification...so it's not COSC certified.

          If you still dun understand...let me give you another example.

          We 2 go through a diploma. We study just as hard,we are just as intelligent...but because I did not sit for the exams,I cannot graduate with a diploma. But we have the exact same about of intelligence,info and knowledge.

          Does it help?


          Sometimes forgotten, but always contactable. Darkangel (2007-2014)

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by meyersound View Post
            Definitely...Agree. No COSC printed = Not sent in for COSC Certification...



            Consider 2 watches, Watch A and Watch B...
            Both watches have Same Engine, Different Casing

            So,
            Engine A = Casing A = COSC Certified
            Engine B = Casing B = Not sent for COSC Certification

            Conclusion,
            Enigne A = Engine B = COSC Certified

            True???
            The conclusion may not be correct. I agree that the engine for casing B may meet the COSC requirements as it is the same as the engine for casing A. But as it is not sent to COSC for certification then it is not COSC certified. Q.E.D.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by ejaan View Post
              The conclusion may not be correct. I agree that the engine for casing B may meet the COSC requirements as it is the same as the engine for casing A. But as it is not sent to COSC for certification then it is not COSC certified. Q.E.D.
              Agree with you totally...Not sent for certification means not Officially COSC Certified...


              But then again, let's analyse the situation:

              Explorer 1:
              Movement: Cal. 3000
              Case Dimensions: 36 mm (W) x 44 mm (H) x 12 mm THK

              Submariner No-Date:
              Movement: Cal. 3000
              Case Dimensions: 40 mm (W) x 48 mm (H) x 12 mm THK

              Based on the case dimensions of the Explorer, it is small than the Submariner...this is external dimensions. Since the calibre is similar, can we assume the Internal Dimensions of both casing to be equivalent? Also, we all know that Rolex Oysters are made from a solid piece of steel. With all that in mind, this means the Submariner is bigger than the Explorer, and since the Explorer is already COSC certified, no logical reason why a watch with bigger casing is not COSC certified. Well, it may not be officially COSC certified, but based on the above analogy, can we say it is a "Non-Official" COSC?


              COSC (Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres):
              Definition of COSC: A chronometer is a high-precision watch capable of displaying the seconds and housing a movement that has been tested over several days, in different positions and at different temperatures, by an official neutral body (COSC). Each chronometer is unique, identified by a number engraved on its movement and a certification number given by the COSC. Each movement is individually tested for several consecutive days, in 5 positions and at 3 temperatures. Each movement is individually measured. Any watch with the denomination "chronometer" is provided with a certified movement.

              ISO 3159 provides the definition of a wrist-chronometer with spring balance oscillator. Only movements which meet the precision criteria established under ISO 3159 are granted an official chronometer certificate. Movements are tested for 16 consecutive days according to a tests panel.



              • Every day, including Saturdays and Sundays, movements are measured and rewound.
              • Based on these measurements, 7 eliminatory criteria are calculated.
              • If and only if all these criteria are met, the movement is duly "chronometer-certified"

              Table summing up the criteria and their degrees of tolerance:
              http://www.cosc.ch/popmecaniquetableau.php?lang=en



              In conclusion, can we say the Submariner No-Date is a "Non-Official" COSC watch but can perform up to COSC Standards?
              What do you guys think...?
              [U] [/U]

              [COLOR="Blue"]4000ft = 1220m[/COLOR]

              [IMG]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/meyersound/moi-SD.jpg[/IMG]

              Comment

              • #8
                Internal dimensions of the two watches are definitely the same for the exact same caliber used.

                Sure... the movement of the 14060 is capable of getting certified as a chronometer. But so are all the other movements like ETA, Valjoux, Lemania, etc...

                So... If '...Submariner No-Date is a "Non-Official" COSC watch but can perform up to COSC Standards?...' -> The same applies to calibers made by ETA, Valjoux, Lemania, etc.
                Last edited by Destro22BT; 31-08-08, 02:02 AM.
                "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
                --Groucho Marx--

                *For faster response, pls direct all questions to my email: [email protected] thanks!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Destro22BT View Post
                  ...
                  So... If '...Submariner No-Date is a "Non-Official" COSC watch but can perform up to COSC Standards?...' -> The same applies to calibers made by ETA, Valjoux, Lemania, etc.
                  So my seiko quartz is also a non-official COSC watch!
                  "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence,
                  three times is enemy action and
                  over 600 is clearly the work of an ancient Sumerian demon or some sh*t                  ."

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    either a chronometer or not..... no such thing as unofficial.....
                    the hype is true. listen at your own risk.
                    visit my watch and audio blog oohlins.blogspot & learn how to use the rolex comfort link

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ohlins View Post
                      either a chronometer or not..... no such thing as unofficial.....

                      i see...

                      Thanks for highlighting the definition bro...
                      [U] [/U]

                      [COLOR="Blue"]4000ft = 1220m[/COLOR]

                      [IMG]http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr153/meyersound/moi-SD.jpg[/IMG]

                      Comment

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