Guide : Comparison between Real & Fake Rolex ( good read page 15 &16)

[Great123]

There are also 3131, 3156 copy movt out there

[taxico]

i bought a fake rolex. good news and bad news...

a few months back i spent SG$750 buying what was the best fake rolex sub on the market. i got the watch last week and spent a few days checking it out. here's my opinion on the thing:

overall, the sub will pass scrutiny for most people that don't handle rolex watches on a regular basis.

the good: there are plenty of issues with the watch when viewed by a seasoned collector. the crown is of a wrong shape. the date flick is still not perfect. the hands are not perfect.

when looked at in detail, the overall quality still screams MADE IN CHINA. without taking it apart into little bits, it is entirely possible to tell it is a fake.

the bad: the date flick can be easily sorted with a movement swap. the direction of hand/crown adjustment can be changed by swapping with gen reverser wheels.

the rep dial makers are getting really good at their game. i think it will be a matter of time before the dials and inserts are so well made it's not possible to distinguish without removing them to look at the back.

i fear the day that the backs of dials and inserts are made to rolex spec. this is very possible.

the stamping of logos on the bracelet clasp and crown are very good. way better than i expected. this is also worrying.

on the fence: this watch was designed to accept all gen parts. this is both a good and a bad thing. i assume people with money will simply buy the real deal, rather than a work in progress.

caveat emptor! education is key.

[lukevans]

any pictures of the fake?

[kenkelvin]

Tks for sharing 😊

[lausai88]

You spent $750 just to see how good the fake imitate the original.
Bro, you damn rich

[taxico]

any pictures of the fake?

i've been wondering if i should post photos, and i decided not to.

i will however be posting my opinions on how to avoid falling for these fakes, and some tips on what to look out for by this weekend.

[taxico]

You spent $750 just to see how good the fake imitate the original.

if you don't handle them at least once... how can you learn to tell them from the real stuff? these aren't your KL fakes... i could not find one here in singapore and had to buy one.

[triton]

well done for not posting photos.

personally i find that without handling replica, it can be quite hard to know if the watch is a real mccoy.

i've been wondering if i should post photos, and i decided not to.

i will however be posting my opinions on how to avoid falling for these fakes, and some tips on what to look out for by this weekend.

[taxico]

my following remarks are limited to the older generation of subs and datejusts (and old SD and YMs to a limited degree) for a few reasons. mostly these are what i have exposure to over the last few months.

they are accurate, to the best of my ability, right now. it may no longer apply tomorrow. like the people making these watches, this is a work in progress.

i can't comment on fake YM IIs, and anything else in precious metals (DD, sky dweller, etc). no fake watch is able to replicate the functions properly - usually only partially if the complications are dead (dummy functions). the light weight of plated/wrapped steel is also a quick giveaway that is it not 18k gold.

daytonas:

daytonas... as far as i'm concerned, the 4130 daytona cannot be replicated. take the back off and you will be able to tell the difference instantly. there are fakes out there with all sub dials that work and at the right position.

4030 daytonas... there are frankens, where everything is genuine rolex except the base movement itself, which is usually an el primero running at 36k bph. put these on a time grapher and you can tell immediately it is not 28.8k bph. yes, it can be changed into 28.8k but it is too expensive to do so - it requires a main plate change and these are almost impossible to find. if you add the cost of modifying an el primero to look and work like a 4030 + put it into a genuine rolex case set + bracelet, it will be at least the same price as genuine daytona.

vintage 6xxx daytona. at this time, newbies will probably be easily fooled as a v72 can be dressed up with the right bridge, dial and handset to make a very realistic looking daytona. i've had difficulty telling some of these apart. look to the areas around the pushers, as well as the base plate of the movement to ensure they look like rolex parts.

if in doubt, stay clear. if you do not know your vintage daytonas, you WILL be burnt (eventually). buy a bible (many daytona books on the market) and read read read.

[ki113r]

Wow $750 for a fake Rolex? Power!

[taxico]

anything with 3085, 3185, 3186 (sapphire last generation gmt2, exp2)

these movements CANNOT be (okay, have not been) repped. if the hour hand (not the GMT hand) doesn't jump, the movement is NOT correct.

you CAN put an ETA base movement in with jumping hour hand, but you will not be able to get a date that jumps quickly when you go past midnight. the hand stack is also wrong - the GMT hand will be above the hour hand, which is not how rolex designed it.

anything with GMT hand/3075 + acrylic crystal... eg, 16750, 1675, 1655...

the simplest versions uses an ETA base. the gmt hand is usually adjustable. in a genuine rolex, this is not. the older models are usually slow beat, and most of them will use a high beat ETA although this is not difficult to slow down with the right parts/a movement swap.

the easiest way is to take the back off and look for rolex bridges/markings on the movement.

in a 1655 (a common fake ) the crown guard, and the outer lug area beside the crown lugs are usually of the wrong shape. the dial, at this time, does not correspond well with known 1655 dials out there.

1675/16750 matte dials are also not well made at this time.

YM 16622

these have been well faked. an easy tell is the quality of the dial. the "white gold" (ok. steel) hour marker surrounds are not well/clearly defined. the lume will bleed onto the steel, especially on the 12, 6 and 9 o'clock marker.

the printing of "SWISS MADE" is also not in the correct space and not the right size.

the lume plot below the round mercedes marker on the hour hand is also of the wrong size. the "hole" on the second hand (which attaches to the 4th wheel/hand stack) is big and black - this will be a recurring theme.

other YM models are not good fakes.

[Ed.YEO]

I always believed on the common saying, "It pays to learn, unless someone offer free lessons".
TS bought from a local blogster? Guess what, numbers of months ago, one of my foreign colleague bought a cheong sub from the seller. Wah lau ehh... one another colleague who is a rolex buyer for numbers of years, with about 6 rolexes in his collection, couldn't even tell it's a ROLE-C(where C is cheong) after 5mins of fondling with the fake piece after the FT brought back the watch to the office! With ROLE-C box and "papers" somemore! It was only after roughly 7mins or so... the season collector staff notice something different with the movement. I couldn't tell if i had not unscrew the crown and start to wind... it feels kind of rough compare to real deal. Personally, it's either there's no rubber seal at the stem with the ROLE-C, or it's the nature of the cloned movement.

Really... lucky i rather buy homage, or else my money will be burnt like ash as if i was offering my dead fore-fathers as in Chinese July period...

[taxico]

1680/551x

this is an extremely muddy and murky area. there are case sets out there that are very very well made. there are non-rolex date wheels made from steel. there are custom sub dials made from old rolex dials. there's a whole cottage industry, including some asian-based people modifying/making parts on demand.

because of the relatively high value some of these watches command, you can find very well made fakes that are very difficult to distinguish from the real thing without taking the thing apart and scrutinizing them carefully.

and because i have seen complete/partial fakes using a few genuine rolex parts that come complete with fake service paperwork and fake original warranty paper... i am at a slight loss on what advice to give. but here's a shot...

a quick way: most slow beat ETAs are 21.6k bph. 15xx rolex is 18k or 19.8k bph. i am sure the eta can be modified to run a little slower.

it is also cheap to find a vintage datejust and stick the movement into a fake vintage sub case set. watch out for the engravings (long/short Es). there are fake dials that correspond exactly with all known rolex dials.

check the date wheel. each and every date should look clear, well defined, and not left (your left) justified.

the case back is often a cheap fake. check the markings inside corresponds with known parts on the internet. an old case back will come with a tiny bit if pitting and wear. check the edges of the case back as well as the lip that is near the gasket with a loupe. look for wear.

use your loop and check in between the lugs for real wear, especially at the (inner) corners. if it's like NOS, please be careful. check for drilling at the insides of the lug holes with a loupe. most fake cases have been re-drilled to accept thick rolex spring bars. checking in between the lugs helps because most people don't wear out that area. real wear is easily identified with experience.

as of my posting, there is an entire red sub that has been cobbled together with all genuine parts. it is for sale at under US$7k. my belief is that RSC will accept this watch for service without too much trouble. it is also going to be easy to print fake paperwork for it. is will also be easy to buy it and sell it on for a few thousand dollars more... such watches do not come up all the time as they are expensive and difficult to build, but i hope it doesn't end up in your hands.

this is part of the reason why i no longer buy vintage rolex.

[taxico]

datejust (160xx, 162xx) + vintage explorer 1 (1016) + explorer 1 (14720 + 114270)

these are easy to build. there are always people cannibalizing DJs for the movement - me included.

many many years ago, i have sold a genuine 16013 case set before to someone. he put in a 2836, used tudor oysterdate hands, and gave it to his dad. he showed me photos and it looks really good.

the quickest way to tell? take the back off. if it doesn't say rolex on the movement on the bridges, it's not real. most people don't put a real rolex movement into these watches as they are not expensive on the 2nd hand market.

quick tells on sapphire models... look at the hole on the second hand where it's on the hand set... it's quite big and black.

as some of you may know, vintage 5500 air kings can be modified to be "explorers" - these are usually redials. white words/printing + matte dial = alarm. run away. join VRF and be educated.

real gold bezels are usually marked with a rolex logo on the inside. you'll have to take them off to check. there will usually be some pitting on the mid case below the bezel (including some early batches of 904L steel cases).

for DJs, look for a nicely centered date - on every day, not just some days. on explorers, make sure your crown comes out only to position 1 - that there is no position 2 (for date).

bracelet stamping should be well defined, not too sharp (these are old bracelets).

SD (16600)

look out for the date wheel. usually poorly made, and justified left (your left).

the printing on the case back, especially the oval in the coronet, is poorly made.

the dial markers are not well defined, with lume bleeding.

1665 SD

look at 1680/551x remarks.

[taxico]

16610

the reason for this thread.

i've been monitoring the advancement of this model by a well known "maker" for some time. i decided to order one directly from him to find out what the deal was... i wished i had done it a little later, because he has made more improvements to his fake parts that i am very curious to find out if they are as good as his pictures show. a little more on this later.

his case set is blank. this means it can be engraved with any word/number as the buyer wishes. his case set accepts all genuine rolex parts.

for the purposes of this discussion, i will stick to the watch as was shipped to me by the maker.

the bezel - squeezing it shows a poor quality part. it deforms slightly under pressure.

the tube - the gasket is of the wrong size (slightly smaller)

the crown - slightly bigger than gen, especially at the outer "curve". but the coronet is of a good shape - the oval is slightly wider than on a real part.

the case edges - too sharp. this can be very easily rectified by a polishing cloth.

as of the watch i received, the lug holes were not properly aligned. this means the bracelet was uneven. especially on the 16610T case, there should be ALMOST NO GAP on a real rolex case set + rolex bracelet SEL.

the bracelet had sharp areas and the buckle/clasp area was also misaligned. if the buckle was swapped for a 93250 buckle, it can be difficult to tell the fake from real links. the screw heads were very close to real part.

the genuine screws go in deeper than the fake. when the bracelet is removed, the SELs on the fake do not show a model number or laser engraged coronet. some fake bracelets have a poorly defined coronet. a real bracelet will always show a clearly defined coronet and model number - you may have to scrub the dirt off first...

the second hand hole... by now, you should know what to look for. google for real 16610 images and inspect that hole carefully. the little black hole is quite small, because the rivet has been purposely minimized by rolex to cover as much of the hole as possible.

the fakes usually have quite a big black dot there. it is entirely possible to find a random batch of second hands from china, from time to time, that have a nice rivet (small hole), but it is my belief right now that this is very rare.

manipulate the hands to 11.30pm and slowly move the time forward. the date will creep forward. a real rolex movement will show NO movement of the date wheel.

please note that a 2836 WILL display an instant date jump. however in a last-generation sub, this movement is difficult to fit into a case while maintaining the correct crown height due to its thickness (thicker than a 2824).

crown height is important. in this fake that i've received, the crown height is virtually perfect. in most cheap fakes, the crown is usually set much lower (when looking at the crown from the 6/12 o'clock position, with the crystal facing the ceiling).

the movement used in most fakes will invariably be a 2824 or 2836. i shall briefly touch on a "hybrid" movement that looks like a real rolex movement later.

the dial... this dial is well made, including the steel marker surrounds, but the spacing between the words OYSTER DATE PERPETUAL is a little too wide (IMO). everything else is very very well made and difficult to tell. this dial is, according to the maker, made in UK. i have no real proof this is the case, but i believe it is made by a dial maker for sure.

the magnification is slightly off. it is more than 2.5x but not noticeable on the wrist.

16613

there had been a batch of gold wrapped 16613 that were made a few years back by another maker. these are essentially similar to the above, except the dial printing is spot on and with the proper "sun burst" effect. a quick tell is the lume creeping onto the markers. the (yellow) date wheel on some versions are not well centered.

i have not been able to handle these in person, but the blue version's dial exhibits a slightly purple hue. because these have been a "once off" production, they are no longer for sale. some have modified their fake 16613 from this batch very extensively, and may appear to be indistinguishable from the real deal.

i believe in its stock form, the gold wrapping is in 14k gold. so the tone is a slight giveaway. but because the gold parts are usually swapped out for real parts, the tone itself is not guaranteed. but... generally, most people won't buy a real bracelet for this watch due to the cost involved, and the fact that because the watch is gold wrapped, and thus more durable than plated gold.

due to my limit exposure to this batch of watches, i am unsure what the lug printing is like. i believe they should be shallow and of the wrong font. this can be quickly remedied by a skillful engraver.