is BNIB considered pre-own?

[triton]

this question pop up today while i was having lunch with some watch kakis. this is an interesting thought. i guess to many end users it does not matter whether it is consider pre-own or not. as long as the bracelet/strap of the watch is not re-size, all protective stickers that is suppose to be on is intact, it is still considered BNIB.

one mentioned that it is considered pre-own even though it is deemed to be BNIB. why? this is because customer A bought it from AD and then re-sell it. once it is not bought direct from AD, it is considered as pre-own already. i agree with it to a certain extent depending on which perspective one sees it.

but does it matter if it is pre-own or otherwise if the set is deemed BNIB? will there be any implication if there is something wrong with the watch movement after few days of owning it? will one approach the seller aka the gray dealer or go to the brand watch service centre?

if i go to service centre with the faulty watch and warranty card/paper and service centre says that it has been tampered with. then how? i may discuss the risk of buying from gray dealers in another thread.

[pegasi]

If we merely look at the meaning of these English words, without considering the common usage or "common understanding"...

A BNIB watch owned by a consumer (or so called end user) who bought it from the dealer (be it AD or grey dealer), is a preowned watch. He has owned the watch for a period of time - this fact does not change even if he has never used the watch.

As pointed out by TS, potential buyers of such pre-owned BNIB watch do not care whether the watch is considered pre-owned or not by definition, as all they want is an unused watch that cost less that one that is being sold by the dealer. A key different of a pre-owned BNIB, as compared with a brand new one from shop, is that it normally does not come with full warranty period.

So, we could say, the word pre-owned itself does not says if a watch is used or unused. It just means the watch is, or had been, owned by a consumer. However, many sellers including most dealers of used watches, refer "used watches" as "pre-owned" watches.

[blueysmurfy]

maybe some peeps polished their watches and advertise them as bnib.

[siaoliao81]

I am always under the impression that terms such as "pre-owned", or "pre-loved" are coined by second hand sellers whom do not like the term "used" and its connotations. Strange that it now has a life of its own. So in that regard, no I do not considered pre-owned the same as BNIB, unless we are talking semantics.
The actual question therefore, is whether a BNIB watch is considered a "new" watch?

[ac_wong75]

I will deem BNIB is still preowned as the warranty card would have the original buyer
Name and date in the card I presume unless of course it is undated and dealer not stamp
Yet just my two cents worth

[Matty]

Well, imho i would tink bnib as pre-owned not new cos the watch originated from ADs or grey markets to begin with & passed on to the seller?

[skydweller_sg]

BNIB is not preown - on the contrary, BNIB means factory fresh, bracelet unsized/strap unmounted, all protective stickers still intact and the warranty card is not even dated/and is unnamed (some buyers may accept warranty card to be dated/named to be still considered as BNIB, as long as all stickers intact and bracelet unsized)

If the bracelet is sized and some stickers removed, the watch is obviously worn, but absolutely no hairline scratches even under 10x loupe - a better term would be LNIB (Like New in Box) - this is considered a preown

[pegasi]

So in that regard, no I do not considered pre-owned the same as BNIB, unless we are talking semantics.

The thread subject is not whether pre-owned is the same as BNIB. We know the two are not the same as pre-owned has a wider and more generic meaning then BNIB. The subject is whether BNIB is considered as pre-owned.

BNIB is not preown - on the contrary, BNIB means factory fresh, bracelet unsized/strap unmounted, all protective stickers still intact and the warranty card is not even dated/and is unnamed (some buyers may accept warranty card to be dated/named to be still considered as BNIB, as long as all stickers intact and bracelet unsized)

If the bracelet is sized and some stickers removed, the watch is obviously worn, but absolutely no hairline scratches even under 10x loupe - a better term would be LNIB (Like New in Box) - this is considered a preown

I disagree with you. Even brand new watches being sold at the ADs may not be "factory fresh" - did you not ever try on watches in the shops and not buy it? So how to know if a watch is "factory fresh"? Protective stickers? I can get a few dozens of them and stick it on every of my watches that doesn't have it, like what most ADs and even preowned dealers are doing. And if I somehow manage to buy a factory fresh watch, keep it in the safe "bracelet unsized/strap unmounted, all protective stickers still intact and the warranty card is not even dated/and is unnamed" for 20 years, is it still BNIB? No, it becomes NOS liao.

[skydweller_sg]

By your definition, we all need to queue up at rolex factory to buy our fresh 'bnib' rolex as we risk buying non-bnib watches at ADs
That being the case, why is the term 'bnib' so widely used in this forum by sellers?

Just curious, how do you know there are fake stickers that ADs buy and paste?
Never heard of it before
Do you know which AD is doing it?
Do you practise pasting fake stickers on used watches yourself?

I disagree with you. Even brand new watches being sold at the ADs may not be "factory fresh" - did you not ever try on watches in the shops and not buy it? So how to know if a watch is "factory fresh"? Protective stickers? I can get a few dozens of them and stick it on every of my watches that doesn't have it, like what most ADs and even preowned dealers are doing. And if I somehow manage to buy a factory fresh watch, keep it in the safe "bracelet unsized/strap unmounted, all protective stickers still intact and the warranty card is not even dated/and is unnamed" for 20 years, is it still BNIB? No, it becomes NOS liao.

[SmOcKxY]

To me BNIB or Pre-owned means the same thing..somebody else other than me bought the watch from Rolex or an AD..the only thing I would be concerned about is the authenticity of the watch and the savings I will have by buying through grey dealers..

[pegasi]

I think some are mixing up BNIB with brand new complete set (must have stickers, cloth, etc). And then we go into another discussion of what is complete set. Never end.

So for me very simple,

BNIB = Brand new watch inside the (new) box. Complete set or not, seller to state, to be crystal clear. If model has been phased out for too long, then NOS is more appropriate.

Preowned = Owned by a consumer before, could be used or unused, hence can also be BNIB. When selling a preowned BNIB watch, it is better to just state BNIB and no need to mention preowned coz it should not matter. When selling a used watch, always describe the condition and it will be understood as a used watch whether you state "used" or "preowned".

LNIB...this one a bit vague. Commonly known as very slightly used almost new condition, but just like "mint condition", it can be subjective.

[pegasi]

By your definition, we all need to queue up at rolex factory to buy our fresh 'bnib' rolex as we risk buying non-bnib watches at ADs

What I mean is that there is no guarantee "factory fresh" watches at the ADs since some watches would have been tried on by others. So yes, if you want guarantee "factory fresh" watches you have to go queue at the factory, unless you know some SA who can reserve the watch for you as soon as it arrives. And when did I use the term fresn bnib rolex?

Just curious, how do you know there are fake stickers that ADs buy and paste?
Never heard of it before
Do you know which AD is doing it?
Do you practise pasting fake stickers on used watches yourself?

First of all I did not specifically refer to rolex. And sorry I don't know it is so difficult for the AD to get some spare stickers. And I don't mean fake sticker coz I don't even know stickers can be authenticated. Maybe you can teach me how to differentiate original and fake stickers? And also how I should paste the sticker on my watch to make it look "original"? Thanks in advance.

[skydweller_sg]

Doesnt matter rolex or other brands bro
For the sake of argument, we use rolex as an example, you can use omega or breitling if you like
But i am not sure if these have as many stickers on them as a rolex has

So...Isnt stickers pasted in rolex factory on the watches by machines? You said ADs paste them, so u are referring to manual pasting, right?
How does ADs get the factory 'spare' stickers, if there is any 'spare' to begin with?

If there is none, these stickers are from where? Non original source?

I am unable to tell you how to manually paste stickers on watches, as mentioned, its by machines, and i also mentioned i have never heard of ADs pasting stickers on their watches, but you made the statement that they do it, including some preown shops doing it as well, so you know which ADs and shops are doing it?

If you cant name them, is it out of your imagination that they are doing it?

First of all I did not specifically refer to rolex. And sorry I don't know it is so difficult for the AD to get some spare stickers. And I don't mean fake sticker coz I don't even know stickers can be authenticated. Maybe you can teach me how to differentiate original and fake stickers? And also how I should paste the sticker on my watch to make it look "original"? Thanks in advance.

[pegasi]

I was not talking Rolex who has stickers all over.

I was thinking the more common practice of having sticker on the crystal and backcase. For such sticker, is it so unusual to you that the shops would replace the stickers when it's missing?

[pegasi]

I can offer another example.

Someone bought a new apartment from the developer, already T.O.P., but never move in or rent out. One year later I bought the apartment from him. Do I considered the apartment new? Yes. Is the apartment preowned? Yes too, coz it has been owned by someone before and I am the second owner.

So, new/brand new/BNIB and preowned are entirely two different animals, and can co-exist.