Opinions for my first Rolex

[inzaghi84]

Hi all,

Absolute newbie here.. I used to browse Watchuseek more frequently and subsequently discovered this place, which is cool especially since I get to view the opinions of fellow S'poreans..

So I bought my first and only "serious" watch, an Omega Speedmaster Professional a month ago, from THG Raffles Hotel. Before that I bought a Seiko Orange Monster, a Russian Aviator watch and a couple of G shocks. However I've always lusted after a Rolex, and this forum has certainly not helped things..

I have narrowed down my options to the Submariner Date, the Explorer (39mm) and the Explorer II. However having only just bought a costly watch, I am reluctant to splurge so soon again..

So in your opinion, are there many advantages of an Explorer/Explorer II to the Sub, other than cost? Does it offer more watch for the money? I am willing to consider trying the preowned route, despite being totally unfamiliar with it.. Right now I'm willing to spend at most $5k, including whatever servicing might be needed if I go used..

Or is the Sub so iconic and essential that I should just save and wait until I feel financially capable and guiltless enough to get one?

Your thoughts, please!

[Oceanklassik]

Actually your dilemma is not unique and most started out feeling lost. Iconic or not, it is up to an individual. Which (model) has more advantages thus, becomes subjective. Why? If you dive, and dive with a ROLEX watch, which model gives you the advantages? If you travel overseas frequently, and explore the corners of the world wearing a ROLEX watch also, then which model now gives you the advantages?

If the above is not relevant to you, and you merely want to own and wear a ROLEX watch for light casual/formal activities, then what becomes relevant to your queries will be which model that wraps around your wrist gives you a bigger smile. No point you prefer an Explorer II but because the Submariner is iconic, you buy it right?

[Black_Angel]

The first thing you need to do is go to a rolex store, try the 3 models you mention. (Submariner, Explorer & Explorer II)
Wear them on your wrist and see which 1 you like best. If the bnew price is over your budget, then go pre-owned.

[pokeman71]

I have the same problem as you 3weeks ago. My friend bought me to Fortune Center level 1 to buy an Black dial, 41mm Explorer, F series.

After i bought this watch than i discovered this forum. Last week bring my OC to People Park Center, preowned shop buy a 31mm mid sliver dial rolex for her. I realise that the price there is must more competetive.

5k+ you can actually get a sub le. But I still like my ExII.

[Watcha]

Pre owned Explorer II fits your budget best. To fit your heart got to try.

As for "more" of a watch very hard to define.

Explorer II "more" movement?
Sub "more" case and bracelet?

[Watch]

I had the same thoughts as well and finally settled on a sub. Looking for the best deal now...

[inzaghi84]

Thanks for the replies so far!

I think I have narrowed it down to the sub and the exp II. The exp I's datelessness is a deal breaker for me.

Another thing to consider, for exp II owners/admirers, do you guys prefer the black or white dial?

Im also trying to see which would be a good complement to my Omega Speedmaster Pro.

Thanks!

[Oceanklassik]

Black/white dial for an Explorer II? A relatively personal question. I prefer it white for an Explorer II. Since you are already having a black dial watch (I presume your Speedmaster Pro to be black), you should get a white dial watch. The Submariner does not come in white dial.

[bookiller]

sub w/d or exp ii

bro, please note that sub got quick set date, as for exp ii to set date you have to turn the hour hand 2 rounds (24 hrs)/day (to suit thr gmt function).

do decide fast, the longer you wait the price of rolex is getting more expensive.

Cheers!

[taxico]

So I bought my first and only "serious" watch, an Omega Speedmaster Professional a month ago, from THG Raffles Hotel. Before that I bought a Seiko Orange Monster, a Russian Aviator watch and a couple of G shocks. However I've always lusted after a Rolex, and this forum has certainly not helped things..

I have narrowed down my options to the Submariner Date, the Explorer (39mm) and the Explorer II. However having only just bought a costly watch, I am reluctant to splurge so soon again..

IMO, an explorer 39mm might not be the best watch for you. your speedmaster will suit that role better - a dateless black dialed watch. the speedmaster professional is an iconic watch, and a chronograph is a very fun function to have.

plus, i'm not sure if you'll be paying a premium for the 39mm explorer at the moment. why spend more than what it's really worth?

as you already have a dive watch (orange monster), why not get a white explorer 2 for variety? it also appears your current collection lacks a "dual time" mechanical watch...

the lack of a quick set is a minor thing - those suckers get adjusted as easily as a quick set date watch - true, it takes a little longer but no more difficult.

tack on $1k to your price - that's what a real complete service would roughly cost. also make sure you check the bracelet is in good condition.

therefore, either look for a $3k+ exp2 (1k service, 1k bracelet, then sell the old bracelet) OR splurge about 5.5-6k for a relatively new (1-2 year old) exp2 with the 3186 movement.

but before all of that... go try on the watches first. who knows, you might end up with a milgauss or daytona. or even a classic 36mm explorer!

the exp2 is very very low key. so if you're looking for a flashy, very recognizable watch, you probably want a sub. for the same reasons, the exp2 is also less popular (although it has an extra function).

the water resistance is not a major point here - i doubt you're going scuba diving with the sub if you were to buy one. away from the sea, all rolex watches (when properly sealed/serviced) are comparably water proof.

at one point or other, i've owned many different types of watches cheap and pricey (including the speedmaster pro and almost all of the rolex sport models), and i think the exp2 is a very understated and under-appreciated watch.

the twin-lock crown on my exp2 is more comfortable than a triplock (it doesn't dig into the back of my hand), and IMO, definitely more comfortable than a shoulderless twin-lock crown on my datejusts/daydate.

i love mine lots. i even gave one to my dad!

[taxico]

oooops. i forgot to add: mine is white. my dad's exp2 is black.

BUT... my dad wore my watch for a few days this week and he now prefers the white because it's easier for him to read (lao hwa yen).

so... good or bad eyesight, i guess we both love the white exp2.

the white exp2 does not look good on with a black rubber strap, only on its bracelet or colored nato/nylon strap.

the black exp2 looks good on any sort of strap/bracelet.

[hypersocial]

Personally, I'm into the white ExpII now.

If you already have a couple of black dial watches, a white dial ExpII should complement well with your collection

Talking about G shocks, I'm wearing mine almost everyday recently, love the futuristic look of the GA110B-1A2!

Happy Hunting!

[Black_Angel]

Thanks for the replies so far!

I think I have narrowed it down to the sub and the exp II. The exp I's datelessness is a deal breaker for me.

Another thing to consider, for exp II owners/admirers, do you guys prefer the black or white dial?

Im also trying to see which would be a good complement to my Omega Speedmaster Pro.

Thanks!

Go for the white dial Explorer II.

[inzaghi84]

Thanks all for your opinions and suggestions, especially to taxico with his super in-depth analysis!

I'm actually very surprised with the response supporting the white E2.. I was expecting to be overwhelmed with Sub suggestions. It's strange too, because I found myself slowly swinging towards the white E2 as well!

Some questions though..

bookiller - about having to decide soon, will the price also be inflated for pre-owned watches? Or are the pre-owned market prices more stable? I actually heard suggestions on WUS suggestion to wait for 2011 as there will be a new E2 released, is this true, or should I snap it up now to avoid price increase when that happens?

taxico - Are you saying that whatever I pay for a pre-owned watch, I will invariably need to pay $1k more for servicing? Cos I heard from a friend that certain pre-owned brick and mortar shops actually provide box/papers with 1 yr inhouse warranty, so don't even need to bring to RSC to authenticate. If like tt still need to service 1K? Also is it impossible to get a 3186 mvmt (m/v series if I'm not wrong) E2 preowned for less than 5.5k like you mentioned?

Finally what about the bracelet? Are the bracelets for the older models known to be so bad that buying a new bracelet to replace if mandatory? Other straps shouldn't be an issue cos I'm fully intending to go bracelet for it. I don't dive, haha.

I'm trying to cut my costs here as I only recently splurged on the Speedy.. But I find I'm really, really itching for the E2 right now..

Thanks again!

[taxico]

...will the price also be inflated for pre-owned watches? Or are the pre-owned market prices more stable? I actually heard suggestions on WUS suggestion to wait for 2011 as there will be a new E2 released, is this true, or should I snap it up now to avoid price increase when that happens?

taxico - Are you saying that whatever I pay for a pre-owned watch, I will invariably need to pay $1k more for servicing? Cos I heard from a friend that certain pre-owned brick and mortar shops actually provide box/papers with 1 yr inhouse warranty, so don't even need to bring to RSC to authenticate. If like tt still need to service 1K? Also is it impossible to get a 3186 mvmt (m/v series if I'm not wrong) E2 preowned for less than 5.5k like you mentioned?

Finally what about the bracelet? Are the bracelets for the older models known to be so bad that buying a new bracelet to replace if mandatory? Other straps shouldn't be an issue cos I'm fully intending to go bracelet for it. I don't dive, haha.

there may or may not be a new exp2 next year. if so, it will probably be unveiled during basel - this takes place around early Q2 in april or so.

it takes a while before the watch will actually hit our shores. as a point of reference, the new 39mm exp was released during basel 2010 earlier this year... how many months did it take for it to hit the shops?

and when the new exp2 arrive, there will, invariably, be a hypen demand for such a watch, and as such, the laws of supply and demand kick in.

we have seen these in regular watches such as daytonas, sub LV, sub ceramic, deep sea SD, milgauss... even the tudor heritage chrono... the list goes on.

so. are you prepared to pay a PREMIUM to own something NEW as soon as it hits the AD? if so, start saving now, and don't buy the current exp2.

also, please note that RSC raise their prices whenever they feel like it. additionally, an AD can also refuse to give a discount on a rolex watch. any rolex watch. it's their shop, not ours.

i've known some ADs to keep a few pieces of watches whose supply will soon stop, and selling them later on at a premium (higher margin).

i do not expect the prices of current exp2 to drop even after the launch of the "new" exp2. they are already rather cheap...

if anything, some exp2 (16570) may see a slight surge in demand, especially the ones with the newer 3186 movement. this happened with the gmt master 2 elsewhere in the world, but the prices were again corrected shortly after. it pays to note that gmt master 2s have always been more popular than explorer 2s... and thus, more easily available to buy pre-owned.

as such, there is not telling how "stable" the pre-owned market will be, due to market forces, and there is also no confirmation that a new exp2 will "DEFINITELY" be revealed next year. it PROBABLY will be in their new line up, but to be frank, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS _FOR SURE_... welcome to the world of siao siao rolex!

now, pre-owned watches come in a variety of standards, none of which can be credibly recorded or ascertained; even if you're an expert. you can have watches that look like crap on the outside, but the movement and all other inner parts are perfect. you can also have watches that look absolutely terrific on the outside, but look like crap on the inside.

at the end of the day, you're not just buying a watch, but the words of the seller. if it's from a shop, and the shop says they have a 1 year guarantee, sure... you may feel appeased.

but hey, even rolex doesn't give you an unconditional guarantee when you buy a watch directly from them in france.

therefore, should something happen to your watch, it's a matter of "he says she says", and in singapore where consumer laws are damn near non-existent, the buyer usually ends up losing.

on the bright side - it is quite unlikely for a rolex watch to "go wrong" for no reason. the purchasing process will be made easier when you are armed with information and tips on what to look out for, AND how to look out for them...

if you're buying a watch more than 7 years old, i strongly recommend a full service and change of ALL seals.

the best part about the 3185/3186 movement is: there are no known fakes for such a movement. you don't even need to bring the watch for RSC verification if you know how to check the case, dial and bracelet for authenticity.

as such, you can bring it to a reputable shop (eg, ex-RSC tech) for a service, instead of paying $800-$980 for an RSC service.

BUT for peace of mind, that top shelf price guarantees that when RSC is done with your watch, everything will be genuine (including the bracelet if you send it in), almost perfectly done, with fantastic results. of course the case will look a little trimmer, but that's to be expected.

oh, also a 2 year international RSC warranty!

therefore, we can conclude: a 2 year RSC warranty and complete check for authenticity costs about $1000.

now, the bracelet - loose bracelets are common in well-worn rolex watches. they cost about 1k when purchased from RSC. i've not bought one from them before, so i have no clue how much they go for exactly.

as a guide, USED submariner bracelets in good condition go for US$900-$1250 when purchased from foreign forums. exp2 bracelets are slightly cheaper.

you can sell your old bracelets for parts on foreign forums. each spare oyster link goes for about SG$30 from pre-owned watch shops. the clasp usually goes for a coupla hundred bucks, depending on condition.

hollow end links go for $50-$100 depending on condition. the oyster links that cannot be removed can be sold to a watch dealer for whatever magic it is they do... no clue how much they go for, but if you post them for $100-$150 i'm sure someone will snap it up real quick.

so... you can recoup SOME of the money for a new bracelet back, by selling the old bracelet in part or in its entirety.

watches with hollow-end links usually have a lot of wear behind the lugs - this cannot be avoided as it is a design... flaw? even the SEL have wear in between the lugs, just that they're hidden from view when installed.

this wear will be evident on watches that are regularly worn or roughly handled. your mileage may vary.

watch without spring bar lug holes can be a boon or bane. some people like it, some people don't. some exp2s have them, later ones don't. to me, it's a non-issue. some people don't like it, as it shows that their watch is "old" - some people LOVE them as it allows them to change straps very easily.

as for buying a 3186 exp2 for less than 5.5k... i'm sure it's possible. i'm not currently monitoring prices but all you need is time and patience. you will fare better when you look for an M-series exp2.

pre-owned rolex watches in singapore are generally priced quite high, as such, i recommend you take your time and wait for someone who needs to offload an exp2 urgently or when you travel outside of singapore.

personally, i buy most of my watches from overseas. i've bought a rolex watch from an AD only 3 times. once with my dad, once with my wife and once by myself. all other watches are pre-owned, and i appreciate that i save a lot of money buying them pre-loved.

i have no qualms buying a ratty 3.3k-3.7k exp2, sending it for a full RSC service + polish, selling the old bracelet and wearing the heck out of it on a rubber strap. i just wasn't able to get such deals when they did come along.

RSC service aside, if you want a nice/new bracelet, or if you want the 3186, you will have to pay a premium for it.

this was what i did; i gave up waiting and bought a black V-series exp2 in mint condition (locally) then a LNIB white G-series exp2 (from HK) as they were both reasonably priced.

the moral of the story? when it comes to siao siao rolex land... you pays yer moneys and you takes yer chances!