Things to look out for when buying/authenticating Pre-own

[gunship]

I was at RSC last week to verify a pre-own Rolex. THey do not give out any certification any more. Only verbal confirmation if the watch is authentic or not. All this for $75, " A verbal yes or no"

[DM101]

They will give a receipt with the watch model and serial number. That is the "certifcate" lah

[Oceanklassik]

The ROLEX Service Centre (RSC) will only issue a receipt for having provided a service. They will not provide service for a fake ROLEX/tudor watch. Even authentic but modified ones. Hence, a receipt issued by RSC is deem as good as a 'certification of authenticity'. Then you will ask why not they issue an actual certification if it is almost similar. Well, I guess it has to do with some legality issues.

[gunship]

A receipt = "certificate of authencity"

Yes, i heard about the legality issue about issuing a cert.

[taxico]

Buying a pre-owned Rolex watch? Here're some pointers...

i get PMs from time to time, asking for opinions on a deal, and what to look out for.

i thought i would consolidate some of the advice i regularly give out via PM in this post. this way, i can refer them to this thread instead of typing out each and every reply.

1. buy a loupe.

it's pronounced LOOP. you can find one from daiso for $2.

you can buy foldable ones too (i use a thin foldable type with 2 lenses that gives me 3 types of magnification and fits nicely in my pocket).

and don't pay too much for your loupe.

2. use your loupe to check that the engraving of the serial number is even and constant throughout. if some seem deeper/different than others, proceed with caution. the depth of the words should be the same as the digits.

use the same loupe to check that the dial and hands are okay - no tarnishing on newer watches with white gold inlays/hands. make sure you don't see finger prints...

use the loupe again when you have unscrewed the crown... check that the last few threads are nice and clean... or at least NOT TOO DIRTY.

if it's been serviced, then it wasn't a thorough job. proceed with caution.

3. fully wind up the watch by turning the crown 40-50 times. if you don't feel comfortable doing that, ask for permission. or ask the seller to wind it up for you.

now shake the watch in whichever what way, and do so with the watch near your ear... a properly serviced movement should NOT EMIT ANY SOUND from the spinning rotor.

if you hear something... proceed with caution.

4. 31xx movement? quickset date should flip over some minutes before/after midnight. pull out the crown to position 2 and give the time a quick spin over a few days.

then push it back to position 1 and adjust the dates over a few weeks.

make sure the dates flip over sharply. if the date/day doesn't go over properly... the movement either needs a service and/or (in the case of the day wheel in a day-date) a few screws might be loose. proceed with caution.

non-31xx movement? (30xx/15xx) you might screw up the date change mechanism if you do what i've mentioned above (change date in position 1) during certain hours. i would avoid this step altogether and just use position 2 to check the date.

if there's a problem with the date change, a part might require placing. proceed with caution (minor job though).

5. dial.

"SWISS" only dials: these are ONLY found in A-serial watches. if they appear in watches AFTER A series, it is a replacement dial. if the lume is QUITE strong after light exposure on a SWISS only dial, on an A-series watch it MIGHT be replacement dial.

(yes, you can have replacement SWISS only dials on an old watch [originally tritium]. you can also have dials marked with tritium that is not filled with tritium but luminova/superluminova. but if you know what i'm talking about, you don't need to read this post!)

check the dial (and the hands!) with your loupe! NO FINGER PRINTS OR DUST BITS SHOULD BE FIND ANYWHERE! NOT EVEN ON METAL MARKERS!

if they exist... this watch has been opened and handled in an uncontrolled (dusty/dirty/humid/no fingertip rubber gloves/etc) environment, and probably sealed in the same environment. proceed with caution.

6. polished or not polished? ahhh... easy in a pre-owned shop. ask for a near-mint model and compare. please note newer dress oysters perpetuals have a slightly different case to the old style oyster (extra "1" prefixed on the model #).

if you're buying directly from a private seller, then do your leg work by going to a few shops first and looking at the watch to know what an unpolished case looks like!

7. bracelet - saggy or not? again, easy in a pre-owned shop. hold the watch head horizontally (either crown up or down) and check how much it sags.

even a brand new bracelet sags, but just a little bit.

also note - the first 3 or 4 gaps of the oyster links on BOTH SIDES of the watch have a thinner gap compared to the 4th or 5th gap (onwards).

ie, in a brand new bracelet, the removable links have a bigger gap. non-removeable links have a smaller gap.

used bracelets tend to have similar sized gaps throughout.

pay attention to the portion of the oyster link that is unexposed to the elements and usually left out during a scotchbrite/polishing job. look in between the unremoveable links and see if the finishing is the same as the exposed portion of the bracelet.

there is no tried and tested method of telling whether or not a bracelet is authentic. you can go armed with a clasp code - the clasp manufactured date should not be newer than the watch head. it's usually older.

if you pay $75 for your watch to be verified by RSC, send in ALL THE LINKS together. spare links, screws, end links and spring bars can be non-genuine ones.

and if you pay $75... ask them if (in their opinion) the watch needs to be serviced OR if it looks recently serviced...

8. crown.

make sure the crown is correct. i've seen more than once, fake twinlock crowns on watches. it should ALWAYS have a line underneath the coronet. if it's missing, and it's not on a vintage sub, then please proceed with caution.

a crown should feel nice and crisp and sharp to the finger. if it feels dull (especially if it's gold), it probably needs to be replaced due to wear/tear.

a triplock tube should have a nice healthy looking rubber gasket - if it looks sickly, it probably is sickly elsewhere.

9. case.

look at the case back - if the "teeth" are dented or not-straight... there was a slip up (literally) and your case may or may not be tightened properly.

if the "teeth" are dirty, you may not be able to see this clearly. ask if you can have them wash it with a toothbrush and some soap.

if you're buying the watch from a private individual - ask if they mind washing the watch in a public bathroom under the tap. it's not just hygienic, it's also proof that the oyster case is (still) truly dust and water proof.

if the seller says the watch was "rarely used" but you turn it around and there're so much wear from the end links (and a saggy bracelet), you'll know it's not the case. learn how to tell between spring bark marks and endlink wear marks.

if your watch case has spring bar holes (lug holes), and the seller says it has never been polished, the holes should look nice and "sharp". if it looks "soft" then it probably has been polished before - perhaps even with a cape cod cloth (ie, not major)!

learn how to tell if the caseback has been touched up... if a watch has been regularly worn, the case back would loose its brushed finished. some might even take on a slightly mirrored look!

some people re-sandpaper/re-scotchbrite that portion to make it look new again. some of them do a bad job... and the brushing extends into the chrome/mirrored portion of the case back... this is an easy tell for most.

(if you're buying a watch that dates before 1988... please note that the oyster case is probably made with regular steel. it's not a problem for most, but some poorly cared for watches might have pittings/rusting in places you cannot see - therefore pay attention to the inner lug areas if you cannot open the watch up. if it looks gross and lousy, proceed with caution)

crown guards on a sport oyster professional case: oyster cases are made and polished by machines and robotic arms. however crown guards should usually be thick and quite equal.

but sometimes even brand new rolex watches can have unequal/uneven lugs...

whatever the case, the crown guards should be thick (even in a sub).

the thinner the crown guards, the more often it has been polished. therefore, the less life the watch case has. proceed with caution.

10. bezel

if it's supposed to move, it should do so smoothly. even if it's gritty, this is not a big problem - run it under warm water over a few days and it should clear up.

replacing the parts beneath it is also inexpensive and uncomplicated... unless it's a GMT2c...!

11. price / papers / box / trinkets

i cannot really help determine if the price is justified... a watch is worth whatever someone will pay for it. bear in mind that a full RSC service is $800-$999. a replacement bracelet is probably around the same price.

a full RSC service gets you a card that is as good as the original warranty paper/card. therefore, do your own sums - if the watch is in poor condition, you need to add those 2 sums into the equation before proceeding with a purchase.

however if the watch is mint and beautiful, there is no need to do so. back when an RSC service was a few hundred dollars, such calculations are less necessary... but well, the price is out there, so use it!

trinkets like hang tags/bezel protectors/cloth and the actual watch box... they can be bought from pre-owned dealers for a price. they're not worth the money unless you're looking to complete an existing watch (ie, a watch you CURRENTLY HAVE).

if you need a complete watch, then either keep looking, or prepare to budget a few hundred dollars buying the correct type/number of trinkets/box for your watch (the older, the more expensive).

12. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

remember: what the seller says is one thing, and what is the actual condition of the watch is another. what RSC tells you after paying $75 only gives you a peace of mind. if you want a perfectly genuine watch, you either buy brand new, or send it in for a full service.

YOU PAYS YER MONEYS AND YOU TAKES YER CHANCES!

p/s: i might have left some advice out due to my tiredness. what i thought was a short post became a rather lengthy post. i will add to this thread whenever i have time.

other members can feel free to add USEFUL ADVICE. there is no need for THANK YOU replies. if it's helpful for you, i'm happy. if you think it's rubbish, i would prefer if you told me via PM and i will make corrections in future. (i cannot edit this post after it's posted!)

[taxico]

in the midst of a short discussion with a fellow member over clasp codes and a statement i made above:

(under #7)... the clasp manufactured date should not be newer than the watch head. it's usually older.

for clarification purposes: the clasp code should not mean anything apart from knowing when the bracelet was made.

it can be newer or older than the watch. however it is in my recent experience with newer watches (V-series) that they tend to be older. your own experience may vary (and it indeed can).

an "S" denotes service replacement (just like how an S etched on the sapphire crystal's coronet denotes service replacement).

will the mods make the required amendments (if necessary) and delete one of my double posts above.

[tragicurlyhip]

hi all, absolute newbie when it comes to buying a watch. anyway, i'm dealing with this seller in this forum whose nick is rolexdoc. he's also new to this forum with only 9 posts...so a bit hesitant dealing with him.anyone dealt with him before?

[Cal3186]

To differ an authentic rolex n a fake rolex is so hard. Be cos the FAKE rolex workmanship is getting so sophisticated. Go to RSC n ask them to verify is the best. Just pay $75-$100 for the verification.

[taxico]

to keep this thread slightly alive, here are a few pictures:


unpolished 30xx-based day date bought by my dad when i was born. >30 years old!


polished 15xx-based datejust bought when my brother was born. >40 years old!


unpolished new style 31xx-based modern datejust.

when buying a rolex dress watch, pay attention to the amount of "flesh" left on the watch...

look at the area right next to the crown... is it "meaty"? if it's not, there may not be too much life left in the oyster case.

in my next post i will show lugs and crown guards for sport rolex watches...

[psee]

Great info! Thks for sharing

[triton]

for

1. introduction year
2. clasps code
3. country code
4. other relevant information

please refer to oyster world which update their sites regularly.

[triton]

as this thread is now sticky, please refrain from posting good information, nice work, etc comments. such comments may be moderated as it deem fit by moderators.

you may receive infraction for such actions

[triton]

you may also want to read some other relevant stickies

http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=1784

http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=133

[triton]

use a loupe is fine to inspect is fine, but be warned, the higher the magnification, the higher the chance of you spotting things which cannot easily be seen with the naked eye. this can sometimes lead to different expectation.

visual inspecting a watch is fine. before winding the watch especially if it is a manual watch, proceed with extreme caution.

most important ask seller's permission before doing things like winding a watch, rotating a bezel, shaking a watch.

1. buy a loupe.
and don't pay too much for your loupe.

now shake the watch in whichever what way, and do so with the watch near your ear... a properly serviced movement should NOT EMIT ANY SOUND from the spinning rotor.

[triton]

further to buying a preown watch advice, i do bring a friend along whom i can trust to give advice on the watch itself only. this is very important

if you bring a friend to buy the watch, make sure that your friend does not negotiate the process of buying the watch. it may make the process unpleasant. your friend should only be advising on watch is ok or not. advice such as dial does not match case number, bracelet is not meant for this series is ok.

remember, you are the one buying the watch. not your friend. so the price negotiation should be done by you only.