TPD calculation

[Axela2012]

Hi Triton,

Thanks for your input.

Can someone also advise whether my calculation of the 3060TPD is correct? Also, is there any different between Japan vs Germany motor? Does Germany motor forgone the TPD measurement?

Best Rgds

[triton]

there is a 'missing' component, which is the RPM. so unable to advise you on the calculation 'correctly'

for mode 2, lets take the RPM to 10

each cycle is 8 mins, therefore if it rotates for 2 mins, the total turns is 20.
in an hour, there is a total of 60 mins, which works out to be 150 turns.
in 24 hours there is 3600 turns

if there recommended TPD is 650, then there is in excess of ~5.5 times the amount of recommended TPD. if the slipping clutch has a recommended life of 5 years, this would mean that if the watch is constantly placed on the winder for 1 year, it is likely that the within 1 year, the watch needs to replace the slipping clutch.

for mode 2, lets take the RPM to 12
each cycle is 8 mins, therefore if it rotates for 2 mins, the total turns is 24.
in an hour, there is a total of 60 mins, which works out to be 180 turns.
in 24 hours there is 4320 turns

Below is the various setting of the winder:
Mode 2, Turn clockwise. Rotate for 2 minutes and rest for 6 minutes and then repeat.
Base on calculation, there will in total of 6hr (2/8 X 24hr) of rotation in 1 day. This will make up of 3060 TPD (8.5X360min).

Mode 3, Turn counter clockwise. Rotate for 2 minutes and rest for 6 minutes and then repeat.
Same result

Mode 4, Turn both clockwise and counter clockwise. Rotate for 2 minutes in one direction and then rest for 6 minutes. Rotate for 2 minutes in the opposite direction and then rest for 6 minutes. Repeats above cycle.
Same result

Mode 5, Turn both clockwise and counter clockwise. Rotate for 5 minutes in one direction and then rotates in opposite direction in same 5 minutes. Repeats continuously for 3 hours and then rests for 9 hours. After 9th hour, it will begin rotating above cycle.
Based on calculation for 1 day, the # of Turn Per Day will also be 8.5 X 360min= 3060 TPD

Can any expert here help to validate or confirm that? Is it safe for me to continue to use this winder?

Thx

Hi Triton,

Thanks for your input.

Can someone also advise whether my calculation of the 3060TPD is correct? Also, is there any different between Japan vs Germany motor? Does Germany motor forgone the TPD measurement?

Best Rgds

[Axela2012]

there is a 'missing' component, which is the RPM. so unable to advise you on the calculation.

Isnt RPM meant Rotation per Minute? I have did a timing on the # of rotation per minutes. It is 8.5 times of rotation in 1 minutes.

[triton]

sorry, miss out on that part.

for mode 2, lets take the RPM to 8.5

each cycle is 8 mins, therefore if it rotates for 2 mins, the total turns is 16.
in an hour, there is a total of 60 mins, which works out to be 120 turns.
in 24 hours there is 2880 turns

if there recommended TPD is 650, then there is in excess of ~4.4 times the amount of recommended TPD. if the slipping clutch has a recommended life of 4½ years, this would mean that if the watch is constantly placed on the winder for 1 year, it is likely that the within 1 year, the watch needs to replace the slipping clutch.

Isnt RPM meant Rotation per Minute? I have did a timing on the # of rotation per minutes. It is 8.5 times of rotation in 1 minutes.

[TanWL]

is there any different between Japan vs Germany motor? Does Germany motor forgone the TPD measurement?

Best Rgds

My personal experience with using motors is that they can be controlled with certain circuitry design to it. So different brands of motor have no excuse that they can't, it is only whether they bother to do it. To create a good products need to put in some effort.

[Axela2012]

I realized that if we refer to our forum on Garage sale section for Winder, the Winder there is separated into either one come with the TPD setting or the other type come with exacting the same setting as mine below:
Mode 1 - On/Off Mode
Mode 2 - Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 3 - Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 4 - Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins, Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 5 - Clockwise 5 mins then Anti-Clockwise 5 mins running 3 hours stop 9 hours Repeat cycle ...

If the later is no good, I am wondering why such Mode has been commonly in used and why such winder has been selling here for years.

[TanWL]

Whatever you read in the forum, you must always take it with a pinch of salt. Its is base on personal experience in using, doing some test to it and opinion gathered over years. Beside that it is a free market, as along as the seller obeys the law and follow the rules of the forum I don't see any reasons why the Mod will not allow them to be sold (Mod correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe you can contribute your experience and test results in using such winder in the forum so that we will gain a better understanding of such winder. I believe it will be very interesting. IMO.

[Axela2012]

Whatever you read in the forum, you must always take it with a pinch of salt. Its is base on personal experience in using, doing some test to it and opinion gathered over years. Beside that it is a free market, as along as the seller obeys the law and follow the rules of the forum I don't see any reasons why the Mod will not allow them to be sold (Mod correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe you can contribute your experience and test results in using such winder in the forum so that we will gain a better understanding of such winder. I believe it will be very interesting. IMO.

I rather not use my watch to test the hypothesis. What will be the consequence if the result is negative

What I meant in my previous reply is, if such standards setting is commonly in use on many type of winder and if this is really no good, why didnt anyone highlight that their watches is spoiled by it? Due to latent failure which we can only be justify by many years down the road?

In another words, if I am a seller, will I be selling something that there is no demand?

One of my major concerns is that how can a setting like this (Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins, Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle) be able to use for all models of watch?.... Unless there is no such thing like TPD for watches recommendation.

[Axela2012]

One of my major concerns is that how can a setting like this (Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins, Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle) be able to use for all models of watch?.... Unless there is no such thing like TPD for watches recommendation.

If we are going to achieve the above sequence and timing of rotation, the only solution to make it happen to achieve 650TPD is to reduced the RPM by more the 4 time slower. That mean from initial 8.5 RPM down to 2 RPM. However, if using 2 rotation per minutes, it seem like the rotation is like a snail crawling. Do you think with such slow rotation, will the watch be winded?

[Axela2012]

This is what I read from Navale:


Setting Turns Per Day between 650-900 TPD

I have encountered many buyers asking me the same question: Is it necessary to set the TPD for my Rolex / Panerai / Breitling and other Swiss brand watches?

My answer will be a YES. Although you need not set it to the exact turns, + - 50 winds is reasonably healthy for your watches as well. If you Google the web, you may find most of the prestigious brands of Swiss Automatic Watches requires only between 650-900 TPD to wind up the watch and keep it running well.

Well, there are a lot of other watch winders in the market now that are built with Chinese technology which can compete in the price structure and appearance but none can compete in the reliability and dependability arena. These Chinese "wannabees" are a long way from a mature product. It may look good but if you study closely to its rest/cycle period and winds per minute, you'll come to realize that these china-made winders can wind up to 2200 to 3000 turns per day!

Since winders are meant to be switched on for 24/7, excessive winding from these china winders may mean over-stressing to your expensive watch mechanism and in the long run, causes premature and unnecessary wear and tear to the watch mechanism.

Today's automatic watches are almost all manufactured with a mechanism that would dis-engage the winding mechanism once the mainspring is fully wind up. Thus, over-winding should not be a concern. But "over-stressing" should be considered when choosing a winder to wind up your watch. Over-stressing means causing undue stress on your watch's internal mainsprings, and exert unnecessary torque pressure on the moving mechanism of your watch. All these would lead to loss of accuracy of your watches, causing the internal lubrication of the watch movement worn out much faster, and would very likely shorten the useable life of your watches.

http://www.counting-time.com/winderfaq.html

As a layman, I don't separate the difference between Overwind vs Overstress. I rather damage my watch due to my vigorous movement than placing it inside a winder the may resultant the watch performance to be deteriorate in times.

Nevertheless, I will contact Rolex service centre to check with them on their opinion on whether can a watch get deteriorate if run under a winder with such setting that produce 3k turn per day.

[kiwitan]

With the TPD calculated at 3600, to achieve the to commended 650, would it be equivalent to reduce the operation of the winder to 4-5 hours per day?

I realized that if we refer to our forum on Garage sale section for Winder, the Winder there is separated into either one come with the TPD setting or the other type come with exacting the same setting as mine below:
Mode 1 - On/Off Mode
Mode 2 - Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 3 - Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 4 - Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins, Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 5 - Clockwise 5 mins then Anti-Clockwise 5 mins running 3 hours stop 9 hours Repeat cycle ...

If the later is no good, I am wondering why such Mode has been commonly in used and why such winder has been selling here for years.

[kiwitan]

To get to the required TPD of 650, would it be the same to restrict the operation of the winder to about 4-5 hours a day?

I realized that if we refer to our forum on Garage sale section for Winder, the Winder there is separated into either one come with the TPD setting or the other type come with exacting the same setting as mine below:
Mode 1 - On/Off Mode
Mode 2 - Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 3 - Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 4 - Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins, Anti-Clockwise 2 mins, stop 6 mins and repeat cycle ...
Mode 5 - Clockwise 5 mins then Anti-Clockwise 5 mins running 3 hours stop 9 hours Repeat cycle ...

If the later is no good, I am wondering why such Mode has been commonly in used and why such winder has been selling here for years.

[Axela2012]

Don't think so. If you refer to mode 5 setting (running 3 hours stop 9 hours Repeat cycle ...), this is equaivalent to 6 hrs per day. If RPM remain constant but reduce the time of usage, it must be running at 4 or more time lesser to achieve 650TPD. Remember 3k TPD is ~4.5 or more time higher than 650TPD?

This means that is should be restricted to ~1.3hr of usage per day only. I feel that either running at 2 RPM or 1.3hr running per day is abnormal to me. Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Thx

To get to the required TPD of 650, would it be the same to restrict the operation of the winder to about 4-5 hours a day?

[kiwitan]

Based on 16 turns per 2 minutes followed by with 6 minutes rest, this is one cycle.

Repeat the above cycle for 5.4 hours we will get 650 TPD correct?

Don't think so. If you refer to mode 5 setting (running 3 hours stop 9 hours Repeat cycle ...), this is equaivalent to 6 hrs per day. If RPM remain constant but reduce the time of usage, it must be running at 4 or more time lesser to achieve 650TPD. Remember 3k TPD is ~4.5 or more time higher than 650TPD?

This means that is should be restricted to ~1.3hr of usage per day only. I feel that either running at 2 RPM or 1.3hr running per day is abnormal to me. Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Thx

[Axela2012]

Ya, that makes better sense. To be more precises, it should based on 8.5 turns (which I observed in 1min) instead of 8 turns.

So to be on the safer side, should control at 5hrs runs per day for Rolex.

Based on 16 turns per 2 minutes followed by with 6 minutes rest, this is one cycle.

Repeat the above cycle for 5.4 hours we will get 650 TPD correct?