caution when buying 2 watches on a rotor or 4 watches on 2 rotors

[Souled]

Bro, you are right by saying 'winding pod' is actually the winding cup that holds a single watch.

B&Z deploys a Portescap coreless motor in the center that turns four gears. These four gears turn four winding pods (with four watches). IMO, B&Z sells aesthetics. They are the 'Rolls Royce' of the winder industry. Their controllers are in groups of fours, meaning one controller drives four pods. On the other hand, Underwood, Orbita, Eilux, Swiss Kubik & Scatola believes in a one-to-one direct-drive system. Abest (Taiwan Mfr) echoes this method and develops (OEM) winders under the name of S1, Birkenstoc, Brookstone, Kadloo, Mitch & Marc, and many more. Rapport also uses a one-to-one but deploys a belt-drive system unlike the rest.

So this thread basically has two components as discussion.

1) Is it better to have single watch to a single pod? OR two watches to a single pod?
2) Should a single controller drive an independent pod or multiple pods?

I've noticed that in most 'branded' winders they have single watch to a single pod but varies on the second point above.

I believe Bro VintageRolex has in-depth knowledge about winders too but maybe shy to share. Let's have various opinions from more members here owning watch winders.

For the sake of discussion, Bros & Sis, please share your unbiased experience with all members here. No need to mention any brand names lah!


Incidently Bro Souled, was Francis there when you pop down to Timeless Gallery?

Hi bro ten10

Nope, another salesperson attended to me. Timeless gallery will be having a showcase of the latest B&Z revolution series at Ion next week, so I am hoping to seek greater clarity from a B&Z rep there if possible. Personally I'm not convinced about setting the TPD to the highest recommended setting in a group of four; there must be a reason for the watchmakers to introduce different TPD requirements in the first place.

[triton]

I think they chose to set to highest TPD is out of convenience. this is because it can handle watches that needs higher TPD. they will be saying that automatic watches have slipping clutch to prevent over-winding. hence watches that requires lower TPD wont be over-wound. that is correct. but if they were to say, prolong use of slipping clutch can caused the parts to wear out faster, then they can't sell the winder already.

most people know that the constant use of a particular part in any moving mechanical machine will cause faster wear and tear.

Personally I'm not convinced about setting the TPD to the highest recommended setting in a group of four; there must be a reason for the watchmakers to introduce different TPD requirements in the first place.

[TanWL]

In my early times when I was deciding whether to purchase my 2nd single winder, I did a test on my watch. One of them is a ETA 2836-2 and the other is a ETA 7750. Both movement took turns in the single winder for a week with this setting, 672 TPD(base on the brand of winder that I'm using) and bidirectional. ETA 2836-2 manage to continue moving and wound up the power reserve as for ETA 7750 it stop moving after 2 days. So with ETA 7750 I set it to 960 and 1248 TPD bidirectional and it also stop within the same time. The watch doesn't get wound up. It only get wound up when I set the direction to clockwise. So with this little experiment I decided to get another single winder. Well there might be more reasons to get single winder or not which if I have the time I would like to try but for now I would go for single winder. Just my tot

[triton]

This post should be in another thread. Interesting observation. Thanks for heads up.

In my early times when I was deciding whether to purchase my 2nd single winder, I did a test on my watch. One of them is a ETA 2836-2 and the other is a ETA 7750. Both movement took turns in the single winder for a week with this setting, 672 TPD(base on the brand of winder that I'm using) and bidirectional. ETA 2836-2 manage to continue moving and wound up the power reserve as for ETA 7750 it stop moving after 2 days. So with ETA 7750 I set it to 960 and 1248 TPD bidirectional and it also stop within the same time. The watch doesn't get wound up. It only get wound up when I set the direction to clockwise. So with this little experiment I decided to get another single winder. Well there might be more reasons to get single winder or not which if I have the time I would like to try but for now I would go for single winder. Just my tot

[TanWL]

No problem . This is just my 1 cent info to share why it is good to have individual control on each rotor so that you won't limit yourself to a certain movement only .

This post should be in another thread. Interesting observation. Thanks for heads up.

[sdchew]

In my early times when I was deciding whether to purchase my 2nd single winder, I did a test on my watch. One of them is a ETA 2836-2 and the other is a ETA 7750. Both movement took turns in the single winder for a week with this setting, 672 TPD(base on the brand of winder that I'm using) and bidirectional. ETA 2836-2 manage to continue moving and wound up the power reserve as for ETA 7750 it stop moving after 2 days. So with ETA 7750 I set it to 960 and 1248 TPD bidirectional and it also stop within the same time. The watch doesn't get wound up. It only get wound up when I set the direction to clockwise. So with this little experiment I decided to get another single winder. Well there might be more reasons to get single winder or not which if I have the time I would like to try but for now I would go for single winder. Just my tot

If I'm not mistaken, 7750 series watches only wind in one direction. The other way is free spinning.

[triton]

too close for comfort

my friend has a IWC big ingenieur and decided to purchase a winder without first asking me. then over the weekend, he called and say come over. i got something to show you.

reach his place, saw the winder, saw the specification. i almost fainted on the spot. i say, if you use the winder, good luck to your big ingenieur. hope it does not go richemont at all.

here are some pictures i took.

ingenieur (case diamater 45.5mm) on its own.



ingenieur with 14060 (case diamater 40mm)

look @ how amazingly close the 2 watches are. and if you look closely, the 14060 is slightly on top.



only way is to place crown on the 'outside' as suggested.



the 'best' part of this winder is that we decided to test out how quickly it winds up the watch. setting was alternate and TPD was more than 1000(nothing less than 1000 on all the settings). the recommended setting by orbita is alternate and 800.

within 8 hours of usage, the power reserve went from 3 days to 6 days. my friend immediately took out the watch. he is intending to ask for a refund on this winder. this winder apparently is sold in this forum before.

[TanWL]

Hi Triton,
so from this test what can you conclude? It is that the motor do not have the strenght to turn 2 big watch in a single pod?

[triton]

the issue is not that it does not have enough power. power is confirm have. why? because if it does 10 rpm, start and stop X minutes. there is enough turn.

what i am trying to deduce is that if it fully winds up the watch of 7 days PR, if friend does not take out the watch to wear in say 72 hours. it will still continue to wind the watch regardless the PR is full. once PR is full and it keeps winding the watch, then slipping clutch will be used.

this is why i brought the issue in another thread, is a winder meant to maintain the watch power reserve's state or otherwise.

Hi Triton,
so from this test what can you conclude? It is that the motor do not have the strenght to turn 2 big watch in a single pod?

[triton]

i agree with torque, angular velocity, power and winding sequence are important aspects in constructing a watch winder.

to me, whether the weight of 2 watches on a single pod, makes not much of a difference. assuming that 2 watches are of different weight. as long as it still do X rpm regardless if the pod is empty or just only 1 watch which means there is uneven weight. it is mentioned that the up swing will require more 'power' this will only result in wearing out the parts.

most of you will notice why the pod is angled to a certain degree. this is to 'duplicate' the hand/arm swing movement of a human hand.

When we talk about watch winder motors, it usually involves 4 main factors. They are Torque, Angular Velocity, Power and Winding Sequence.

[VintageRolex]

When your friend's watch is fully wund with 7 days PR in his winder, if he wear it, the slipping clutch will also be used.
The movement of his hand may even create more inertia on the movement rotor.
From my understanding from IWC tech, it does not do any harm to the movement...

the issue is not that it does not have enough power. power is confirm have. why? because if it does 10 rpm, start and stop X minutes. there is enough turn.

what i am trying to deduce is that if it fully winds up the watch of 7 days PR, if friend does not take out the watch to wear in say 72 hours. it will still continue to wind the watch regardless the PR is full. once PR is full and it keeps winding the watch, then slipping clutch will be used.

this is why i brought the issue in another thread, is a winder meant to maintain the watch power reserve's state or otherwise.

[triton]

i know it will not harm the watch because of the slipping clutch is in place to prevent over-winding and hence the movement will not be damaged.

can you check with the IWC technician whether constant use of slipping clutch will cause the part to wear out faster.

the same watch is now tested on a orbita winder. i like to know is a winder is suppose to maintain the state of PR or suppose to wind up the watch.

From my understanding from IWC tech, it does not do any harm to the movement...

[VintageRolex]

Before i decide to place my new IWC BP on my winder, I have already confirmed with Tang (IWC Tech) in Richemont (6317 2588) about this question. The answer is No. The slipping clutch will not be worn off.

My BP has 7 days reserve and even when it is fully powered, I can continously place it on my winder or even wear it for weeks without taking it out.

So rest assured that there is no problem at all.

i know it will not harm the watch because of the slipping clutch is in place to prevent over-winding and hence the movement will not be damaged.

can you check with the IWC technician whether constant use of slipping clutch will cause the part to wear out faster.

the same watch is now tested on a orbita winder. i like to know is a winder is suppose to maintain the state of PR or suppose to wind up the watch.

[ten10]

Cool! So IWC has made a tough slipping clutch.

As for me, I'd rather be safe than sorry! I'll not abuse my slipping clutch whenever possible with whatever I can. If I wear an automatic watch a whole day, I'd rather put it in a 'spa' to relax and not keep pushing the mechanisms. Maybe I'm more tender lah!

IMO, I'd still keep TPDs down to the minimum unless the winder has a delay start feature. With this, I'll place that particular watch inside the winder and activate the delay start. After X hours, then only it starts winding. Shiok right. Relak only!

[triton]

i agree that a person who winds the watch to max power reserve and wears it throughout the day, will still engage the slipping clutch. under such usage, the use of slipping clutch is less compared to putting on a winder such as the one my friend is using that winds up the watch and keeps doing so. until the watch is taken off the winder.

all mechanic parts has a stressed point. there comes a point where the part will need to be replace.

i feel that a winder is meant to maintain the power reserve of a watch. not to wind up the watch. if it is to wind up the watch, then i think it is 'dangerous' if it keeps winding up the watch, it will keep on engaging the slipping clutch this would in turn increase the rate of wear and tear.

Before i decide to place my new IWC BP on my winder, I have already confirmed with Tang (IWC Tech) in Richemont (6317 2588) about this question. The answer is No. The slipping clutch will not be worn off.

My BP has 7 days reserve and even when it is fully powered, I can continously place it on my winder or even wear it for weeks without taking it out.

So rest assured that there is no problem at all.