Panerai overpriced?

[theOrion]

Straps

With a Pam now comes the danger of strap sourcing! hahaha am thinking of a hornback. But at 26mm my choice is not as wide as the rest I guess.

[Ender]

With a Pam now comes the danger of strap sourcing! hahaha am thinking of a hornback. But at 26mm my choice is not as wide as the rest I guess.

well, my preference wld be the vintage tan ammo.. but if you like exotic leathers... you may want to consider APB... go to their website, you can surf their leathers on offer until cross-eyed...

[Fred_Tan]

I touch my heart....

Panerai overpriced? I say way NOT overpriced.
Once the doom & gloom is over, it'll get even more pricier.

Why?
Because it is:

1. Limited production: < 30,000 watches per year. Less than 300,000 watches are ever made so far.

2. Pure usage history: Used by Italian Navy in WW1 & WW2. Was restricted to military usage up to 1994. No other brand has this history of 100% Navy exclusivity from 1860 to 1997. No one has access to this mystery brand till 1995. In fact, from 1860 till 1994, anyone having this watch in Italy or Egypt is either a Navy frogman or a Navy deck officers.

3. Design: Big is in. 47mm is 44mm of yesterday. 60mm is coming soon with arrival of PAM341 that will relive Egyptian's 2/56 model in 1956. 1950's bubble Case is so cool. Luminor shape is so simple yet tough looking & masculine. Rad is dressy but still project the rough image.

4. Technology: Luminor for ligibility under-water & not to mention my old-man eyes & Crown guard for water resistance. Since 1930s, it's been used for nightly underwater sabotage bombings mission in WW1 & WW2 and by deck officers in Italian Navy. Rolex missed the boat and had to ask a lady to swim across English Channel to sell it's Oyster after WW2.

5. Heritage: Current models still maintain strong connection with 1930s model with PAM232 & 249, 1940s with PAM0 & 111 & 1950s release with PAM203, 267, 217 & 127. People buy these watches to associate themselves with XaMas flotilla of Italian Navy's bravery during WW1 & 2 who sank the highest tonnage per head in mankind history.
In 1940s, a single XaMas frogman can sink 100,000 tonnes per month.
A team of just 8 frogmen brought Mediteranean sea lanes to a complete stop in 1930s to 1940s riding on just mere PIGS wearing Rads & Lums that they caused much heated debate & curse in British parliment under Churchill.
No watch brand has ever struck so much damage and no watch brand has ever being mentioned by any statesman in any stateshouse, ever.

Other brands had to sent watches to the moon, underwater, north pole, Antarticas, Everest & give the watches to Pan-AM pilots & James Bond, Rubbens Barrachelo, Governator, team Alinghi, the flop Michelle Wie, Anika and sport figures, actor & actresses and place their watches on magazines, papers, F1 & movies to sell.

Panerai has 130 years 100% usage where every single watch & instruments they made are used by solely Italian Navy & no one else.
This is not a mere sponsorship or stick some stickers like what some watch brands do.
This is real war where you see Italians joining the Axis with Germany & Japan and fought the Allied in battle of deaths. All of XaMas commados never survive both wars.
If Panerai was a fluke, why was the Italian Navy divers risk their lives with the Rads, Lums, Subs for over 130 years?
The fact that XaMas was so feared in the Mediteranean is a proof of supremacy of Panerai watches and they warrant no more ads to pull sales thru.

6. Coolness: It's e very few manual winding watch left in e open-mart nowadays. And, it's e only high-horlogerie brand without any ambassador. Famous people buy Panerai to show off and make a statement that he's tough & cool. Panerai don't go after them and ask them to endorsement.
Most of other brands ask losers like Rubbens Barachello & winners alike to lend their name. Panerai couldn't give hoot. Ads blitz? What's tat?

7. Innovation: Most brands like AP ROO models only change materials to sell. Panerai had to innovate Rads, Lums & Crown Guard without anyones help for real military applications daily usage for 130 years. This is not innovation for few times usage to the moon or Everest but constant usage day after day by Italian Navy divers. Since 2002, they made their own mvmts.

8. Value & appreciation: Panerai is the very few brands where you buy to wear & sell as used pieces with the least losses. This is an understatement as most Paneristi do make money on all models over time.
Even Rolex & PP cannot command appreciation that saw almost all of Panerai models from 1997 till now; PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 187, 190, 194, 203, 217, 219, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322 and soon 312, 305, 317, 320, 332 & 341 command appreciation from 10% to 3500% since launch even after we discount the price drop due to this depression.
No other brand can give such a high valuation appreciation on so many models in just slighly 10 years after public launch.
If you consider Pre-Vendome models from before 1997, the price appreciations for every single Panerai ever made from 1860 till 1997, it's even more mind boggling at over 4000 to 8000%.
The very fact that you only see a submarine PIG model on the display shelf of every AD in the world is a solid testament to this fact.
Many PAM special edition models are sold the very day it's launched.
Regular edition models has wait list of up to 6 years.

Look how much PP 5711/ 5712 & 5980 has crashed?
How about the crash in AP EOD, T3, Polaris, Alinghi, RB1, RB2 & 3 prices?
All are 20 - 40% down.
All are grails.
Look at Pre-V & PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 187, 190, 194, 203, 217, 219, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322 prices....are they down by 20% since Aug-08?

Based on these 8 factors, I can conclude it's the history, heritage, technology, innovation, design, coolness, value & ltd production of Panerai that justify paying USD20k for a watch that only cost USD300 to build.

Many distractors argue that Panerai's ETA6497, 7750 movements made them cheap....my arguments is even Patek 5959 dun take USD300k to make.
ETA6497 & 7750 is a sturdy & robust mvmts & the Panerai who use to place Rolex ebouche use it for Italian Navy tells a lot of it's robustness.
Many PAMs are still ticking till today...

Other sports brands' models from U-Boat, B&R, IWC, EWC, Fortis, TAG, Omega, AP & Breitling, Rolex & etc are sponsoring events & people to buy into Panerai lineage.....
Panerai simply supply Italian Navy real military watches & instruments that has went thru wars....

Simply put, people like me will kill for any Pre-V, a PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 26, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 217, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322, 317, 332, 341 & etc just bcos I want to associate myself to XaMas Flotilla self-sacrifice, bravery, brotherhood & successes.

The very fact Paneristi forum that only has 30,000 watches to kill each other for every year has top 3 rank and Rolex Forum with 3 million watches per year forum is only top 50 explains a lot...

I use to swear by Rolex, AP & PP and nothing else...
Today, after losing so much much money on Rolex, AP, PP & etc, I dare to say only Panerai offers me value for investments & 1000% brand satisfaction.

Watch is like an art appreciation. If you want under-price for value, buying watches is wrong move.
You'll be better off buying Pounds sterling, EURO, California, Singapore, Japan & HK properties, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Enron, Worldcom, Satyam & Stanford shares, DBS High Notes 5 & 10, unit trusts & join Lehman Brothers, AIG, Sunshine Empire & Madoff scheme

Cheers.

[louie]

another good read! thank you Fred!! this means i shld go back to my pam sale adjust price ..

[116520]

Fred, wonderful thoughts... A if it is a term paper...

But why you didn't mention PAM 63?

[Fred_Tan]

Fred, wonderful thoughts... A if it is a term paper...

But why you didn't mention PAM 63?

Ah , yes 63, I forgot, sorrie.

[116520]

That's my baby....

Ah , yes 63, I forgot, sorrie.

[Democritus]

You forgot the 267 too, that's a grail.

And of course the PreVs...like 201/A etc.

My Personal fav is 203 but doubt I can ever own it.

Those I will keep, 24, 115, 232.

Sold and hoping to get back...190

Those saving to get...127, 217, 249, 1bt, 22bt......many more

[Ender]

wah wall of text ... damage 99999++++!
next time, i put up my pams for sale, i'm going to link your post...

[Ender]

You forgot the 267 too, that's a grail.
And of course the PreVs...like 201/A etc.
My Personal fav is 203 but doubt I can ever own it.
Those I will keep, 24, 115, 232.
Sold and hoping to get back...190
Those saving to get...127, 217, 249, 1bt, 22bt......many more

another one posioned deep deep...
must be focused dey...

[Mille]

fierce! i see liao damn high!

[louie]

wah wall of text ... damage 99999++++!
next time, i put up my pams for sale, i'm going to link your post...

[BRABUS]

Wow nice read ! Made me wanted to get another pam , either 233 or 270 ! Actually was thinking of the IWC Big Pilot !

[Destro22BT]

Objectives & Scope of the Request for Information on Panerai Watches

The objectives of the Request for Information (RFI) are to:

1. Invite prospective collectors (single or consortium) to submit information relevant for building on this concept. Collectors are also invited to propose ideas to develop new innovative services. Please refer to 'RFI Document for the Innovative Consultation Services on Panerai Watch Appreciation' for the proposed concept and scenarios for the conceptualisation of innovative services that can be provided by such collectors.

2. Gather feedback, commercial interests, and challenges that may be faced in the development of innovative Panerai watch appreciation services such as:

* Cost of development and the viability of the innovative services in Panerai watch appreciation;
* What and how Panerai historical contents can be weaved with real-time information to bring greater benefits and value to the watch collecting community;
* Incorporating participative and data contribution element in the services to engage citizens and private sectors;
* Identifying public, private and people sector information that is valuable to the industry and to facilitate access to and reuse of these information; and
* Demonstrate how Panerai historic data categorisation and management can be administered to segregate authoritative vs community contents, so that users are able to make an informed choice on the level of trust they need to purchase such luxury timepieces.

3. To gauge industry's interest to participate in a Pilot project that lasts from March 2009 - Jun 2010, and to invite interested parties to submit proposals for the conduct of the Pilot.

--End--

Panerai overpriced? I say way NOT overpriced.
Once the doom & gloom is over, it'll get even more pricier.

Why?
Because it is:

1. Limited production: < 30,000 watches per year. Less than 300,000 watches are ever made so far.

2. Pure usage history: Used by Italian Navy in WW1 & WW2. Was restricted to military usage up to 1994. No other brand has this history of 100% Navy exclusivity from 1860 to 1997. No one has access to this mystery brand till 1995. In fact, from 1860 till 1994, anyone having this watch in Italy or Egypt is either a Navy frogman or a Navy deck officers.

3. Design: Big is in. 47mm is 44mm of yesterday. 60mm is coming soon with arrival of PAM341 that will relive Egyptian's 2/56 model in 1956. 1950's bubble Case is so cool. Luminor shape is so simple yet tough looking & masculine. Rad is dressy but still project the rough image.

4. Technology: Luminor for ligibility under-water & not to mention my old-man eyes & Crown guard for water resistance. Since 1930s, it's been used for nightly underwater sabotage bombings mission in WW1 & WW2 and by deck officers in Italian Navy. Rolex missed the boat and had to ask a lady to swim across English Channel to sell it's Oyster after WW2.

5. Heritage: Current models still maintain strong connection with 1930s model with PAM232 & 249, 1940s with PAM0 & 111 & 1950s release with PAM203, 267, 217 & 127. People buy these watches to associate themselves with XaMas flotilla of Italian Navy's bravery during WW1 & 2 who sank the highest tonnage per head in mankind history.
In 1940s, a single XaMas frogman can sink 100,000 tonnes per month.
A team of just 8 frogmen brought Mediteranean sea lanes to a complete stop in 1930s to 1940s riding on just mere PIGS wearing Rads & Lums that they caused much heated debate & curse in British parliment under Churchill.
No watch brand has ever struck so much damage and no watch brand has ever being mentioned by any statesman in any stateshouse, ever.

Other brands had to sent watches to the moon, underwater, north pole, Antarticas, Everest & give the watches to Pan-AM pilots & James Bond, Rubbens Barrachelo, Governator, team Alinghi, the flop Michelle Wie, Anika and sport figures, actor & actresses and place their watches on magazines, papers, F1 & movies to sell.

Panerai has 130 years 100% usage where every single watch & instruments they made are used by solely Italian Navy & no one else.
This is not a mere sponsorship or stick some stickers like what some watch brands do.
This is real war where you see Italians joining the Axis with Germany & Japan and fought the Allied in battle of deaths. All of XaMas commados never survive both wars.
If Panerai was a fluke, why was the Italian Navy divers risk their lives with the Rads, Lums, Subs for over 130 years?
The fact that XaMas was so feared in the Mediteranean is a proof of supremacy of Panerai watches and they warrant no more ads to pull sales thru.

6. Coolness: It's e very few manual winding watch left in e open-mart nowadays. And, it's e only high-horlogerie brand without any ambassador. Famous people buy Panerai to show off and make a statement that he's tough & cool. Panerai don't go after them and ask them to endorsement.
Most of other brands ask losers like Rubbens Barachello & winners alike to lend their name. Panerai couldn't give hoot. Ads blitz? What's tat?

7. Innovation: Most brands like AP ROO models only change materials to sell. Panerai had to innovate Rads, Lums & Crown Guard without anyones help for real military applications daily usage for 130 years. This is not innovation for few times usage to the moon or Everest but constant usage day after day by Italian Navy divers. Since 2002, they made their own mvmts.

8. Value & appreciation: Panerai is the very few brands where you buy to wear & sell as used pieces with the least losses. This is an understatement as most Paneristi do make money on all models over time.
Even Rolex & PP cannot command appreciation that saw almost all of Panerai models from 1997 till now; PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 187, 190, 194, 203, 217, 219, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322 and soon 312, 305, 317, 320, 332 & 341 command appreciation from 10% to 3500% since launch even after we discount the price drop due to this depression.
No other brand can give such a high valuation appreciation on so many models in just slighly 10 years after public launch.
If you consider Pre-Vendome models from before 1997, the price appreciations for every single Panerai ever made from 1860 till 1997, it's even more mind boggling at over 4000 to 8000%.
The very fact that you only see a submarine PIG model on the display shelf of every AD in the world is a solid testament to this fact.
Many PAM special edition models are sold the very day it's launched.
Regular edition models has wait list of up to 6 years.

Look how much PP 5711/ 5712 & 5980 has crashed?
How about the crash in AP EOD, T3, Polaris, Alinghi, RB1, RB2 & 3 prices?
All are 20 - 40% down.
All are grails.
Look at Pre-V & PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 187, 190, 194, 203, 217, 219, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322 prices....are they down by 20% since Aug-08?

Based on these 8 factors, I can conclude it's the history, heritage, technology, innovation, design, coolness, value & ltd production of Panerai that justify paying USD20k for a watch that only cost USD300 to build.

Many distractors argue that Panerai's ETA6497, 7750 movements made them cheap....my arguments is even Patek 5959 dun take USD300k to make.
ETA6497 & 7750 is a sturdy & robust mvmts & the Panerai who use to place Rolex ebouche use it for Italian Navy tells a lot of it's robustness.
Many PAMs are still ticking till today...

Other sports brands' models from U-Boat, B&R, IWC, EWC, Fortis, TAG, Omega, AP & Breitling, Rolex & etc are sponsoring events & people to buy into Panerai lineage.....
Panerai simply supply Italian Navy real military watches & instruments that has went thru wars....

Simply put, people like me will kill for any Pre-V, a PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22, 23, 26, 28, 36, 56, 123, 127, 217, 232, 239, 249, 292, 309, 322, 317, 332, 341 & etc just bcos I want to associate myself to XaMas Flotilla self-sacrifice, bravery, brotherhood & successes.

The very fact Paneristi forum that only has 30,000 watches to kill each other for every year has top 3 rank and Rolex Forum with 3 million watches per year forum is only top 50 explains a lot...

I use to swear by Rolex, AP & PP and nothing else...
Today, after losing so much much money on Rolex, AP, PP & etc, I dare to say only Panerai offers me value for investments & 1000% brand satisfaction.

Watch is like an art appreciation. If you want under-price for value, buying watches is wrong move.
You'll be better off buying Pounds sterling, EURO, California, Singapore, Japan & HK properties, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, Enron, Worldcom, Satyam & Stanford shares, DBS High Notes 5 & 10, unit trusts & join Lehman Brothers, AIG, Sunshine Empire & Madoff scheme

Cheers.

We thank you for your submission in response to the above RFI.

[feudallordcult]

Fred, yr post is an eye-opener even for a pam noob like myself. thanks for the awesome read!