Panerai overpriced?

[darth-khips]

As long as we keep the discussion open and not let it degenerate, it would be a good read.

I think everyone has a story to tell of whichever brand of watch that attracts them.

I like certain Pams only...232 (47mm, tobacco, gold hands), 190 (gold hands, JLC 7 days), 115 (destro and painted), 24 (T-dial, sub), 217 (destro, 47mm).....etc. I'm sure others have their own story to tell of whichever models that attract them.

Just like Rolex, I only like GMT. Many times I was tempted to get a Daytona cos everyone says it a must have, but I have never taken that step cos I am not a chrono (Even my AP ROO is a non chrono) lover and also find the watch 2mm too small for my liking.

Kudos to Fred for his passion and I can understand his pursuit....Really, the excitment is in the pursuit of a watch more than owning it. I also flew to HK to get a 115 once but was beaten by someone else by 2 hours and came back empty handed. That strengthen my aim to get my fav destro and finally after more than 1 year of searching and missing, I got it on Christmas last year. So, it is not something I will part with easily.

Let this place be for watch lovers to share their love and not be a place to put each other down.

well said. my philosophy to collecting is broadly similar to yours, though i prefer the "gentlemen's watches". and yes, the chase is sometimes more fun, but i have come to enjoy my current collection and am not adding to it, esp its my opinion(rightly or wrongly) that ALL makes are "overpriced" and i think it will head lower. alot of people dun see the overhang in watch inventory being held by speculators and traders, and all the manufactury investment raising production. thus i am staying out, there will always be something interesting with every Basel.

DK

[darth-khips]

Some will only like small watches, some will only like big watches, some will like both.....so I think small and big can co-exist.

I like a 47mm 217 as well as a 38mm Lange. Will not want a 47mm Lange and a 38mm Pam.

mate, u are absolutely right!! i wear my 38mm VC with same frequency as i wear my 44mm IWC. weekends, same, 44 Pam or 40 daytona. once in a while a 56mm brm, but that was a impulse purchase.

[allan]

Wow it is amazing how you guys travel to another country just to get the pam you wanted.

For me my love for panerai has just started only..... but definately more to come in the future

[Fred_Tan]

thats my point, being that unlike what Fred is saying, Panerai is not immune to celebrity endorsement and regatta marketing, contrary to his earlier assertions. a more balance view is necessary. i have asked my research to look into richemont accounts to see whether marketing and endorsement for PAMs is broken down in their accounts, will revert.

Fred,

in an effort to "promote" one's loyalty and affinity to one's favourite brands, dun beat down other makes and also substantiate ones sweeping statement. i have not taken a opposite view to yours, but i have always maintain that though Panerai is not my favourite, it is always neccesary to own one to complete one's collection and also i super respect Panerai brand DNA, even though i think it is blown out of appropriate proportion and also a result of careful marketing. nevertheless, having a story to promote the brand is still better then having no story to promote the brand.

saying california governor is a molester(never convicted), graham using parts assembled using child labour in china etc etc, is not a proper way to advance one's horological opinions. and when pointed out factual errors, just put one's hands up and say, "mate, u r rite!!!". at the end of the day, this is a public forum, if i am seated next to you with a bunch of people and you raise your arguments similarly, it would probably be more appropriate.

the thread started with a dicussion on whether Panerais are overpriced? i assume the thread starter is 1)talking about todays PAM market prices, and 2)relative to other brands. i guess a more appropriate approach would be to contrast say model range against model range, eg PAM 25 against DSSD, pam 88 against gmt ,master. feel free to throw in other makes to contrast. disussing their relative performance and complications have more virtues. even older vintage series. discussing prices always contentious, with differing opinions. you put up a good thesis on why PAMs prices are not overpriced. i am just presenting an angle representing that part of the price premium, if there is one, is due to slick marketing. and we havent even discussed Panerai's involvement with ferrari and ferrari events.


to be frank, becoz of this exchange, i have begun to relook my panerai convictions and range again, and i admit that there are some temptations!!! nevertheless, i will resist,or more like the credit card will resist.

DK

DK,

For ur information, that poster was not allowed to be used by Sly Panerai or any one and was never actually used by Panerai or Vendome or any party .
It's made by fans and that's it.

Never beat up anyone.
This a free forum.
No one force you to read my post.
If you don't feel happy, you can always air ur un-happiness here.

You pretend to be the expert here.
But u r not.
So am I, I'm not the expert here.

When someone knows more that u, u got 2 choice.
Accept it or dun accept it.
If u couldn't accept that fact that we're all sharing our knowledge here, then I suggest you dun try to make yourself look even more foolish.

I maybe new to the brand but I've been in watch-collecting for many years and I still consider myself just a newbie.

No need to feel offended.
My point is direct & as it is, in your face.

If u or anyone wear Hublot, Graham & BRM then I feel sorry that the people who manufacture your watch uses slave & child labour in Chine to make it.
I don't feel sorry as what I say is true.
Take it or leave it.

Rolex has big mart drive which irrates me.
So I express it here.
If you are not happy about it, u can say so & I'll not attack u.

But, in ur case, I can see u as a mere bully in this forum who r only interested to make urself look clever & berates anyone that disagree with you.

If you have any prove to disclaim me, by all means do so.

I've done a lot of research on how many brands operate.

I know the inside story of most decision since 1998 by major brands as I'm stationed in Switzerland & work for CNC lathing & tooling company that support the Swiss watch-making industry after I graduate from UK.

Unless you have better things to say, my suggestion to you is to move on and if you're still unhappy, pls express it here with facts & prove.

[Democritus]

well said. my philosophy to collecting is broadly similar to yours, though i prefer the "gentlemen's watches". and yes, the chase is sometimes more fun, but i have come to enjoy my current collection and am not adding to it, esp its my opinion(rightly or wrongly) that ALL makes are "overpriced" and i think it will head lower. alot of people dun see the overhang in watch inventory being held by speculators and traders, and all the manufactury investment raising production. thus i am staying out, there will always be something interesting with every Basel.

DK

Watch collection is a journey. Sometimes, we are just at different stages of the same journey, so it's meaningless to argue which is better than which. I am still enjoying bigger watches for now but I am sure someday, I would trim down some sportier pieces and get my top dress watch...Lange 1 moonphase, a FPJ and my ultimate grail Urwerk 103.

[Democritus]

Chill to all party. We are all watch lovers and let that be the premise for all discussion. Let's share opinions (which can never be wrong) and not argue over who is accurate or not.

I admire all your passion and let's just agree to disagree cordially.

Cheers to Panerai.....DNA, marketing or plain lucky.

[shuseido]

Fred bro and DK bro... relax ya...

[Fred_Tan]

My philosophy

My philosophy is simple.
A person is entitled to do anything.
He beats e law, he pays.

He got $, he can do whatever he wants with it.

Panerai over-price?
Then, dun buy...

No one says it's cheap.

And, no one force anyone to buy.

No money like me? Stay ay home.
Got money, then I can but whatever BRM, Hublot, Graham, U-Boat, B&R, PP, AP, OP, Rolex, Zenith, IWC, EWC & etc that I wan.

Overprice & underprice is a very subjective manner.
Paying SGD20k for a BNIB PAM292 or 217 or 127 is over-priced to some who may not earn as much as what some people do.

Worst, with just a re-decorated ETA6497 that's worth only SGD150, do you think PAM292, 217 & 217 is overpriced?
I think it's INSANELY OVER OVER OVER prized.

But paying SGD20k for BNIB PP5711/1A-001 may not be overpriced as it was SGD40k 6mths ago.

Again PAM292, 217 & 127 was SGD30k 6mths ago.

Would a person who bought PP 5980/1A-001 for SGD100k 6mths ago think he overpaid when he can get the same watch BNIB & 2x sealed for SGD60k now?

But a person who can afford to wear PP5980, 5712 & 5711 or any Pre-V, PAM1, 2, 4, 9, 22, 26, 36, 56, 115, 117, 187, 194, 203, 217, 219, 239 & 267 or any AP ROO Alinghi, RB1, 2, 3, EOD & T3 will not give a hoot to pricing.
If he can walk into an AD to pick up a SGD30 - 200k watch, his perception is different than a person who only can afford 16610 & 16600 that cost SGD8k....

How about a person who bought a PP 5712/1A-001 for SGD65k half a year ago and could get it now for just SGD40k?

The actual fact is over & under price is very very subjective.
It's dependant on ones affordability & mart condition.

A under-valued watch today or long ago could end up appreciating or even go even lower in value. Likewise an over-valued watch today could go higher or lower.

It's all demand & supply....

[darth-khips]

DK,

For ur information, that poster was not allowed to be used by Sly Panerai or any one and was never actually used by Panerai or Vendome or any party .
It's made by fans and that's it.

Never beat up anyone.
This a free forum.
No one force you to read my post.
If you don't feel happy, you can always air ur un-happiness here.

You pretend to be the expert here.
But u r not.
So am I, I'm not the expert here.

When someone knows more that u, u got 2 choice.
Accept it or dun accept it.
If u couldn't accept that fact that we're all sharing our knowledge here, then I suggest you dun try to make yourself look even more foolish.

I maybe new to the brand but I've been in watch-collecting for many years and I still consider myself just a newbie.

No need to feel offended.
My point is direct & as it is, in your face.

If u or anyone wear Hublot, Graham & BRM then I feel sorry that the people who manufacture your watch uses slave & child labour in Chine to make it.
I don't feel sorry as what I say is true.
Take it or leave it.

Rolex has big mart drive which irrates me.
So I express it here.
If you are not happy about it, u can say so & I'll not attack u.

But, in ur case, I can see u as a mere bully in this forum who r only interested to make urself look clever & berates anyone that disagree with you.

If you have any prove to disclaim me, by all means do so.

I've done a lot of research on how many brands operate.

I know the inside story of most decision since 1998 by major brands as I'm stationed in Switzerland & work for CNC lathing & tooling company that support the Swiss watch-making industry after I graduate from UK.

Unless you have better things to say, my suggestion to you is to move on and if you're still unhappy, pls express it here with facts & prove.

i dun see in whoch post i made that i claim to be the expert on Pam or Rolex??!!! i pointed out FACTUAL errors made by you in your posts!!! i didnt say you are not privy to "the inside story", and if indeed you are, i am more than happy to hear your views, whoch i have been all these times. i would be more then happy to learn from you how these brands operate, though i wouldnt suggest you do it in a open forum like this.

i have maintain that this "exchange" between us is purely view based, backed from what in my case limited knowledge, and in your case, a broader understanding since you worked in a watch related industry. but there are some facts which are in public domain, and you cannot make a sweeping comment and then refuse to acknowledge it!!!

you dun see me making any posting in the rolex section on the individual series, becoz i got nothing to add on a technical level to the pool of horological knowledge here. so your accusation of me being a bully who "berates" and "make one look clever" etc are not warranted.

i wish that you would actually see what you posted about "when someone know more then you", are you practising what you purportedly are preaching?
i NEVER said i was an authority on horological affairs, esp PAMs and Rolex. i seems like you are the one who is not facing the reality here. i went thru some points on points with you, from regatta sponsorship to Sly.

and mate, dun take it so personally, i really am not trying to "attack" you. i was adding to the pool of views here, and at the same time pointing out several factual errors you made. and the marketing literature above, was made by panerai marketing, but they didnt get big Slys approval, thus withdrawn.

and also, i am not taking a diametrical opposite view as you pertaining to Rolex, the few guys i have met here knows i am not a big fan of Rolex, and like Democratus, i only like the GMT, plus daytona in my case.

and mate, your point about child labour used for Hublot, BRM etc, i have not done any research into it, but unless it is something you can substantiate, it is difficult to maintain that stance. i am not saying what you say are not true, like i said, i havent done any research on it. moreoever if you are so into being morally correct on the issue and child labour being used, there will be many other prodcust, non horological, that you cant use.

[116520]

I also never claim to be the expert on Pam or Rolex leh but bro louie always think I am an expert since I have the Super Lao Jiao thing under my nick...

[Fred_Tan]

i dun see in whoch post i made that i claim to be the expert on Pam or Rolex??!!! i pointed out FACTUAL errors made by you in your posts!!! i didnt say you are not privy to "the inside story", and if indeed you are, i am more than happy to hear your views, whoch i have been all these times. i would be more then happy to learn from you how these brands operate, though i wouldnt suggest you do it in a open forum like this.

i have maintain that this "exchange" between us is purely view based, backed from what in my case limited knowledge, and in your case, a broader understanding since you worked in a watch related industry. but there are some facts which are in public domain, and you cannot make a sweeping comment and then refuse to acknowledge it!!!

you dun see me making any posting in the rolex section on the individual series, becoz i got nothing to add on a technical level to the pool of horological knowledge here. so your accusation of me being a bully who "berates" and "make one look clever" etc are not warranted.

i wish that you would actually see what you posted about "when someone know more then you", are you practising what you purportedly are preaching?
i NEVER said i was an authority on horological affairs, esp PAMs and Rolex. i seems like you are the one who is not facing the reality here. i went thru some points on points with you, from regatta sponsorship to Sly.

and mate, dun take it so personally, i really am not trying to "attack" you. i was adding to the pool of views here, and at the same time pointing out several factual errors you made. and the marketing literature above, was made by panerai marketing, but they didnt get big Slys approval, thus withdrawn.

and also, i am not taking a diametrical opposite view as you pertaining to Rolex, the few guys i have met here knows i am not a big fan of Rolex, and like Democratus, i only like the GMT, plus daytona in my case.

and mate, your point about child labour used for Hublot, BRM etc, i have not done any research into it, but unless it is something you can substantiate, it is difficult to maintain that stance. i am not saying what you say are not true, like i said, i havent done any research on it. moreoever if you are so into being morally correct on the issue and child labour being used, there will be many other prodcust, non horological, that you cant use.

DK,
Whatever u say is rite.
What I say I wrong.
Happy now?

[louie]

I also never claim to be the expert on Pam or Rolex leh but bro louie always think I am an expert since I have the Super Lao Jiao thing under my nick...

okay lah bro, what about coffee o on me,lunch on you...

[darth-khips]

DK,
Whatever u say is rite.
What I say I wrong.
Happy now?

mate, dun be like that. this is exchange of views. there is no right or wrong opinions, just right or wrong facts.

i am more happy that you continue to contribute your horological knowledge. lets not make this personal. i would be more then happy to buy you a drink or meal, and listen to your opinions, serious. you definately know more about Panerai then me, becoz i am not a serious fan, i have not investigated pre V models, or even many current models, prob can learn more about individual models from you.

[116520]

Ok ok... next time we go Starbucks and I will bring you some combat ration from my previous in-camp....

okay lah bro, what about coffee o on me,lunch on you...

[Democritus]

Everyone chill and lets get on with more Pam discussion.

Seriously, the T dials on Pams are many times nicer than the T dials on Rolexes. Also, T dial Rolex does not enjoy premium over L dials as much as Pam's case. Funny right?

For me, I'll take a T over an L anytime but money no enough.