Guide : Buying Panerai in Europe

[WTWH]

Hi guys, new to this forum and I just got back from guided tour from italty to Swiss then to France. My guide inform us that we are unable to buy from Rome, Milan etc as italty vat refund form needs to be stamped at local custom and as we travel by coach, we are unable to get it stamped. Is this true?
In the end I got my pam from Paris boutique at rue de la paix. The manager and staff is very nice and friendly except they dun give discount. Before that went to a ad,they dun have the model and dun give discount too so I thought its hard to get discount. Maybe I dint try hard enough. But my vat refund was pretty smooth. The pam boutique in Paris enable me to get my refund in cash from galleria laffeyete. When I reach Paris airport, the custom officer was quite fierce but he stamped it after looking at my watch on my wrist.
Everything was smooth and fast even for my tour mates.
Impt thing is to pray that there are no china tourist departing before u...
My last question will be how did local grey dealer managed to sell at such competitive price? For the price they sell, they shld be getting very good discount plus higher vat in order to have profits right?

My understanding that some of the grey dealers get the full VAT refund from Europe unlike tourists like us who has to pay a portion of the refund as service charge to the tax refund companies (like Global Blue) for their admin or financing.

And of course, they would be able enjoy wholesale price and get more discount since they buy in bigger quantities.

[bennyfoong]

Hi guys, new to this forum and I just got back from guided tour from italty to Swiss then to France. My guide inform us that we are unable to buy from Rome, Milan etc as italty vat refund form needs to be stamped at local custom and as we travel by coach, we are unable to get it stamped. Is this true?
In the end I got my pam from Paris boutique at rue de la paix. The manager and staff is very nice and friendly except they dun give discount. Before that went to a ad,they dun have the model and dun give discount too so I thought its hard to get discount. Maybe I dint try hard enough. But my vat refund was pretty smooth. The pam boutique in Paris enable me to get my refund in cash from galleria laffeyete. When I reach Paris airport, the custom officer was quite fierce but he stamped it after looking at my watch on my wrist.
Everything was smooth and fast even for my tour mates.
Impt thing is to pray that there are no china tourist departing before u...
My last question will be how did local grey dealer managed to sell at such competitive price? For the price they sell, they shld be getting very good discount plus higher vat in order to have profits right?

Your tour guide ought to be shot by saying you can't get VAT for purchases in Italy. I went with a guided tour to the countries you mentioned last year this time too, bought 5 watches and a few bags in Italy lugged them to Switzerland then to Paris and fly back to SIN.

Got all my VAT stamped in Paris airport without any issue, VAT refund for any purchases in EU can be done at the last airport you leave EU from. This forum is filled with so much information about purchases and VAT refund when buying in Europe that made me confident to buy when I'm there.

[Terras14]

That's what I thot so... He refuse to give us time coz he wants us to buy in Swiss so he can have incentive from bucherer in Swiss... Wtf

[satch]

That's what I thot so... He refuse to give us time coz he wants us to buy in Swiss so he can have incentive from bucherer in Swiss... Wtf

If the itinerary was too rushed in Italy to allow tourists to buy watch, then the guide should have just said so, instead of saying something that is not factual. It doesn't matter where you buy the watch from, as long as there is a Global Blue counter (or whatever tax refund agent that the shop is using) at the airport that you depart from in the EU, you can claim the refund.

Personally, I find that a lot of the Swiss watch shops are very tourist-orientated. At Lucern, I observed some watch shops have billboards with the Chinese names of the watch brands above the English names. At the observatory station at Jungfrau, you can see a watch counter selling Tissot & other brands.

[Terras14]

If the itinerary was too rushed in Italy to allow tourists to buy watch, then the guide should have just said so, instead of saying something that is not factual. It doesn't matter where you buy the watch from, as long as there is a Global Blue counter (or whatever tax refund agent that the shop is using) at the airport that you depart from in the EU, you can claim the refund.

Personally, I find that a lot of the Swiss watch shops are very tourist-orientated. At Lucern, I observed some watch shops have billboards with the Chinese names of the watch brands above the English names. At the observatory station at Jungfrau, you can see a watch counter selling Tissot & other brands.

I dun think its the iternary but just that he wants us to buy in Swiss as the shop gives kickback to him. In Swiss the price is the same, if not more ex than spore so what's the point? But he sells the idea of only Rolex in Swiss is fully made in Swiss. The rest in Asia or italty can be from elsewhere
Gives story like only need to be 47% Swiss made to have the logo Swiss made in Rolex etc....haha
Btw I stop by Venice and a panerai boutique is in the making....

[satch]

I dun think its the iternary but just that he wants us to buy in Swiss as the shop gives kickback to him. In Swiss the price is the same, if not more ex than spore so what's the point? But he sells the idea of only Rolex in Swiss is fully made in Swiss. The rest in Asia or italty can be from elsewhere
Gives story like only need to be 47% Swiss made to have the logo Swiss made in Rolex etc....haha
Btw I stop by Venice and a panerai boutique is in the making....

lol, another load of crap about "fully made in Switzerland", what is the basis of such an allegation? and there's no 47% rule, he probably got the numbers mixed up, lol. here're the facts from the horses' mouth:

http://www.fhs.ch/en/swissm.php

A Swiss watch

Only when it is Swiss, may a watch carry the indications "Swiss made" or "Swiss", or any other expression containing the word "Swiss" or its translation, on the outside. According to Section 1a OSM, a watch is considered to be Swiss if:

its movement is Swiss;
its movement is cased up in Switzerland;
and the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland.

Here's where the 50% rule applies

The "Swiss case" indication on a watch case betokens that the case is of Swiss manufacture. A case is considered to be Swiss if:

it has undergone an essential manufacturing operation in Switzerland (stamping, turning, or polishing);
it has been assembled and inspected in Switzerland; and
over 50 percent of the manufacturing costs (excluding the value of the material) are due to operations carried out in Switzerland.

A Swiss watch movement

As we have seen, to be Swiss, a watch must use a Swiss movement. According to Section 2 OSM, a movement is considered to be Swiss if:

it has been assembled in Switzerland;
it has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland; and
the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly.

[Terras14]

Thanks

[Dazz]

Hi there anyone familiar if the vat % rebate ? Understand that they have different % for different amount per receipt. Not standardize tru Europe. Any idea ? Thanks

[coern]

depends on the VAT rate of the country. france is 19%, italy is 21.5%. The global blue or whatever refund company will take a cut of your VAT when processing the refund.

By my experience, you get an effective 12% of retail price back if purchased in france, 13.5% in italy.

[satch]

Hi there anyone familiar if the vat % rebate ? Understand that they have different % for different amount per receipt. Not standardize tru Europe. Any idea ? Thanks

Stores can either process the refund directly and return u the full vat amount or use a tax refund agent like global blue or premier tax. They rarely are willing to do the former because of the hassle involved. For the 2nd method which is most commonly used, the agent takes a cut off the full vat refund amount as their commission, that explains why the customer doesn't receive the full vat refund %.

Go to global blue website, there's a vat refund calculator u can use to determine the effective refund amount at various EU countries.

[panAM]

My experience from buying watches in Europe (Italy, Austria, France, Switzerland)
You will usually get back a VAT refund of about 14.5 % for big ticket items from most European countries. Example, don't expect to get a 14.5% refund on a strap that cost 250 euros (at least that is what the AD told me). So if you are planning to buy a watch, do consider about buying the straps (or other accessories) in the same transaction.

Some myths on watch 'discounts' from Europe AD;
There seems to be a widespread notion that consumers can get about additional 5%-10% discount from store. There is hardly any truth, at least from my experience, certainly not from panerai boutique or big time ADs. The other time where I was given that discount is from an Austrian watch dealer (not an AD) that is willing to give me additional 7% on a Pam 359. He seems a a bit dodgy to me, so I politely give a pass. I would have got a nice margin if I were to buy and sell it, but will not take the chance.
Also, unless you buy with a busload of cash, you will be charged a service fee for using credit card and also, you are vulnerable to the currency exchange rate by the credit card and your bank. Example, the Euro exchange rate was 1.56 when i was in France. I bought two watches with my credit card, received my credit card bill from local bank, and the exchange rate was reflected as 1.63 (because it includes the additional service fee). a difference of 0.7% (for a 10,000 euros watch) is 700 euros!
Again, there are probably some folks over here with cool connections to overseas ADs and can purchase in purchase with good discounts, but to a regualr non-dealer guy, just take note of the implicit financial expenses involved.
Hope this helps.

[satch]

Also, unless you buy with a busload of cash, you will be charged a service fee for using credit card and also, you are vulnerable to the currency exchange rate by the credit card and your bank. Example, the Euro exchange rate was 1.56 when i was in France. I bought two watches with my credit card, received my credit card bill from local bank, and the exchange rate was reflected as 1.63 (because it includes the additional service fee). a difference of 0.7% (for a 10,000 euros watch) is 700 euros!

on credit cards, my personal experience is to avoid amex and standard chartered cards, their rates are much higher compared to local banks like OCBC.

[coern]

My experience from buying watches in Europe (Italy, Austria, France, Switzerland)
You will usually get back a VAT refund of about 14.5 % for big ticket items from most European countries. Example, don't expect to get a 14.5% refund on a strap that cost 250 euros (at least that is what the AD told me). So if you are planning to buy a watch, do consider about buying the straps (or other accessories) in the same transaction.

Some myths on watch 'discounts' from Europe AD;
There seems to be a widespread notion that consumers can get about additional 5%-10% discount from store. There is hardly any truth, at least from my experience, certainly not from panerai boutique or big time ADs. The other time where I was given that discount is from an Austrian watch dealer (not an AD) that is willing to give me additional 7% on a Pam 359. He seems a a bit dodgy to me, so I politely give a pass. I would have got a nice margin if I were to buy and sell it, but will not take the chance.
Also, unless you buy with a busload of cash, you will be charged a service fee for using credit card and also, you are vulnerable to the currency exchange rate by the credit card and your bank. Example, the Euro exchange rate was 1.56 when i was in France. I bought two watches with my credit card, received my credit card bill from local bank, and the exchange rate was reflected as 1.63 (because it includes the additional service fee). a difference of 0.7% (for a 10,000 euros watch) is 700 euros!
Again, there are probably some folks over here with cool connections to overseas ADs and can purchase in purchase with good discounts, but to a regualr non-dealer guy, just take note of the implicit financial expenses involved.
Hope this helps.

ADs do give discounts. Same as in SG. Just don't go to the Pam boutique and expect a discount.

I got 12% back on VAT for my pam strap in paris, same percentage as the 3000 euro purchase in LV the next day...

[Zeusleo]

Where can I get the strap in Paris?

[Zeusleo]

after comparing all the prices during my europe trip, I think Switzerland is still the cheapest but the VAT is lower