Help me to decide.....

[Hollyman]

Bros,let us forget all the unpleasant moments on those discussions & let him(Winsguy) to decide for himself on wht he wnts.

I beliv.tt he should knw wht he wnts by now.

Winsguy, i hope you will enjy yr new toy in time to come.

Always rembr tt whenever you wnt to buy somethings, just go with yr own guts feelings.

[johnfish]

Bygones by Bygones!!! All this issues are just comments and own judgments as we all know that each has it own perception! Since everyone has difference views, we should just enjoy our wrists time pieces rather than showing or posting what the majority wants or
Wish lists!
Next, don't compare or need to show what's you have as not everyone in this form keen to know or wish to follow your styles or tastes too.
Finally, those who have more valuable timepieces or arsenal will never tell or show what's they have as they are the most humble ones or heroes who they will never surfaces too, cheers !!
World Peace to everyone in this forum!!!

Are u saying by posting wrist-shots showing off their beloved collections requested by threat starter a bad idea " LOL!!! I'm too confuse dun know should i cry or laugh !!

[wolfeyes1974]

Frankly speaking, i think this has been discussed before and in general, watches are never great investments and if investment is the intent, there are other instruments. Yes there are multi-millionaire with the means to play with exqusite watches (and I know quite a few lurk here) but even for the average watch lover, we need to be careful about telling everyone to only invest in watches that will gain and not decrease in value. I get tickled when people tell stories of how much money they made on a watch, like how they make a killing on the stock exchange. What they don't tell you is how much losses they have also made on watches or stocks.

So if people ask me what watches to buy, I always tell them to buy the one they like and can afford. Yes, it is true that some brands and models hold better value than others but it's not a guarantee and hence, if one is to buy it purely as an investment, better to go buy some dividend blue chip stocks and that's even risky.

plus one!!

[FullHouse]

I don't meant that but depend on how and what you perceive in thus case! Let's hope u didn't cry or laugh in this case, LOL!!!

[Dewi P.]

Dewi, while one can appreciate your advice (based on your opinions) to the TS, one would hardly appreciate your jibe at Bro Zameen 'divesting' (a terminology that seems valued by your good self) his Pam195 at a loss.
It is his prerogative to let his go at whatever price he deems fit just as it is yours to deem that the pre-vendome models are the only ones worth collecting.
What might not be within your (and your other alleged identities of Ernie, Mingwen etc) right is to pooh-pooh others of their Panerai collection and decision-making liberties. While some hardcore purists believe that only pre-vendome models are worth collecting (and in any case, hardcore Panerai purists will be advocating Anonimo and Ennebi Fondale), do note that there are also significantly more rational (and sometimes less obsessed) buyers who simply adore the aesthetics and heritage of the brand without the deep pockets or the opportunity (some were bitten by the PAM bug after it was bought over by Richemont) to own Pre-vendome models. To echo my sentiments with Bro Zameen (perhaps due to my prolateriat upbringing), I see little point in paying a massive premium for pre-Vendome models that differ very slightly from current models, especially when they cost much less previously that does not justify its current predatory pricing. The cash saved can be used for other watch or even humaitarian pursuits. That said, I respect your collection and your collection philosophy but surely you (and your other personas) can adopt a more congenial approach that is less elitist that can be occasionally and somewhat construed as condescending.

Zameen seems to disregard the way Robert has invested in his pieces and believes, like you, that buying Pre Vendome watches are not really a good investment and I beg to differ.

I know that Robert's collection is very exquisite and hand picked by himself. It has been said by you and Mr. Zameen that buying Pre V's are not really a worthy endeavor but I know Robert bought his first 201/A for 32,000 USD and 8 months later he sold it for 41,000 USD. Not bad a bad profit margin for only holding it 8 months and he certainly did not sell it for a loss. His current 201/A with the non matching dial, he only bought last month for 60,000 USD and 1 week after he had it in his possession he was offered 75,000 USD for it by an Indonesian collector. Of course he refused to sell because he is not a flipper. As I have said, he only has a total of 4 watches, total but granted, none are sitting around, not being worn and losing in value as we type these words of wisdom.

[stektan]

Sigh...amd that's why we don't have world peace....

[Dewi P.]

1- piece was not mine but a friend's
2- what was the retail price of a 195?? EUR 3900
3- it was sold more than twice retail..so I don't really get what you are saying

Oh ok you were flipping it for a friend? I thought for sure that the 195 was in the same class as the 360, wasn't the 195 given only to the golden of the golden Paneristi worldwide? Whoever was chosen to buy the 195 was given the honor by the CEO of Panerai becuase I understood he was the only one ot choose the honored ones. As such their names were engraved on the back of each piece and those pieces may have been sold to the reciepients for Euro 3900 but they were certainly flipped for 20,000 to 25,000 USD when they first started getting flipped. And unless you were flipping for one of those chosen few that originally bought the watch, that particular 195 was sold at a loss if you consult the 5 different postings of desparation that you made on the Paneristi website needing to sell it.

But why would you, a person who has no taste for flipping these exclusive PAMs, do it, even for a friend and how many in Singapore were chosen for this honor in Singapore to recieve the 195 that you were flipping for?

[Dewi P.]

Sigh...amd that's why we don't have world peace....

World Peace? I beleive some would settle for just a little peace just in SE Asia but then why does Singapore have all of those disputes with Malaysia? Have you brought up your wish for World Peace with PAP?

[fondriest]

Look. We really dont care what Robert has or doesnt have. While we congratulate him for acquiring HIS grails, I dare say most of us are happy with what we have. The key word here is contentment.

Fact is, if SOMEONE asks for opinions on A, B or C, there's really no point jumping in with all that chest thumping telling him to buy Z that costs 5 to10 times more and shoving your self indulgent doctrine, dogma and philosophies of watch collection down our throats.

Yes, you can afford your grails. We too can AFFORD to LOSE a certain value of our "garden variety" watches should we even need to sell them down the road. So it's really no skin off our noses.

Unlike you, not everyone buys a watch with profitability as part of the equation.

[toffeesthings]

Zameen seems to disregard the way Robert has invested in his pieces and believes, like you, that buying Pre Vendome watches are not really a good investment and I beg to differ.

I know that Robert's collection is very exquisite and hand picked by himself. It has been said by you and Mr. Zameen that buying Pre V's are not really a worthy endeavor but I know Robert bought his first 201/A for 32,000 USD and 8 months later he sold it for 41,000 USD. Not bad a bad profit margin for only holding it 8 months and he certainly did not sell it for a loss. His current 201/A with the non matching dial, he only bought last month for 60,000 USD and 1 week after he had it in his possession he was offered 75,000 USD for it by an Indonesian collector. Of course he refused to sell because he is not a flipper. As I have said, he only has a total of 4 watches, total but granted, none are sitting around, not being worn and losing in value as we type these words of wisdom.

Dewi,
I think you could be missing a point here. Myself and many other bros on this forum view watch acquisition primarily as a hobby, thereby reinforced by the somewhat extravagent prices others are willing to pay for pre-Vendome pieces while you seem to allude to watch acquisition to more of an investment.
The truth is, watch collection is a conjoint activity utilizing many numerous evaluative criteria, where the resale potential is hopefully maximized.
Thus, this indidates that there is merit in your initial message that it's best to purchase a piece that one likes and can hopefully appreciate in value, but your perception that my view of purchasing Pre-Vendome pieces are not a worthy endeavor were misinterpreted; the feelings of it not being a worthy endeavor is that rational most inviduals will scoff at purchasing an item at many times over its selling price, and indeed only individuals with deep pockets are more likely to make irrational purchases paying a massive premium that ironically rationalizes that individual's decision when a rare and bound-to-soar in value piece is purchased.
Once again, I recognize that your differing perspective is valid as it is with 'Robert' and certainly the Indonesian collector who offered US$75K for a piece that initially retailed at a fraction of the price not too long ago.
Still, let's not hog the thread that really is about gathering advice and opinions on 3 Pam models that Bro Winsguy is contemplating, and certainly without the profligarate need to bring in regional politics. Matters too, are not all that rosy in Indonesia where you reside.

[feilong108]

For me i buy watches as a hobby...Becoz for the love of watches...not for the sake of investments or wad...many ways to earn $$$ but not thru watches lar....

With 200k may as well buy a house and flip or rent out...makes more $$$ than trying to decide which watch to buy and flip to earn that meagre amount of $$$...

Personal view lar....cheers...

[toffeesthings]

Look. We really dont care what Robert has or doesnt have. While we congratulate him for acquiring HIS grails, I dare say most of us are happy with what we have. The key word here is contentment.

Fact is, if SOMEONE asks for opinions on A, B or C, there's really no point jumping in with all that chest thumping telling him to buy Z that costs 5 to10 times more and shoving your self indulgent doctrine, dogma and philosophies of watch collection down our throats.

Yes, you can afford your grails. We too can AFFORD to LOSE a certain value of our "garden variety" watches should we even need to sell them down the road. So it's really no skin off our noses.

Unlike you, not everyone buys a watch with profitability as part of the equation.

Well said Bro, you have succintly put accross our collective sentiments. As long as we're happy with our garden variety pieces and others are happy with their investment 'grails', little else matters.

[stektan]

No one is dismissing robert's collection or saying that he is making the wrong decisions. The point is that folks who play in the 30k league per watch are not average watch lover here. You can't apply their thinking and strategy and dismiss others. People who buy a Lamborghini don't have to save up for one. If you need to save up for a 30k watch, you probably shouldn't buy it. That's not to say you shouldn't save up for a watch becos most of us do. Different league, different rules.

[likmuk]

I am thinking of buying a car...either a Toyota Vios or a Honda Civic. What do you guys think?

Oh wait, I think Mr Dewi is going to ask me to save up for the Mclaren supercar. Cos it will hold its value and perhaps make me money in years to come. And for now, just take SBS and SMRT.

[toffeesthings]

For me i buy watches as a hobby...Becoz for the love of watches...not for the sake of investments or wad...many ways to earn $$$ but not thru watches lar....

With 200k may as well buy a house and flip or rent out...makes more $$$ than trying to decide which watch to buy and flip to earn that meagre amount of $$$...

Personal view lar....cheers...

Haha, Bro Feilong, our views are the same as with our addictive hobby. Let's not enter further discourse on the 'meagre' returns of flipping, or some will argue that flipping the right grail watch does not bring meagre returns. Anyway, did you manage to catch the ECW Panhard on sale for a steal yesterday?
I might just start a thread soon contemplating between purchasing a Pam24 and Uboat CAB as one of my final final purchases for a long while.