Breaking News: Richemont do not verify Panerai watches anymore

[Paneraii]

Actually no need to authenticate....2

All papers, stickers and numbers are linked. Furthermore, I think Richemont no longer has the bandwidth to authenticate Panerai watches. It is kind of tricky. Certain series has polished crown guard for example. Please give them some leeway. It is not a situation whether they want to please a customer or not. Already they are facing some shortage in skilled watchmen.

And btw, a complete set 312, 351 and etc. new range is not possible to fake.

Lastly, Panerai not easy to fake as a set certainly. Because Panerai keeps changing!!! Box different, guarantee cards different, in-house mvmt has no cards and etc.

Do you seriously think that the AD's watch technician can spot the difference between a real wheel and a not-real wheel? Frankly, they can authenticate the general detail of a Panerai but not the micro details.

And is there a good fake 233 out there where it can do "simi-sai-also-have function??" I doubt..

My 2 cents

[FullHouse]

Actually no need to authenticate....2

All papers, stickers and numbers are linked. Furthermore, I think Richemont no longer has the bandwidth to authenticate Panerai watches. It is kind of tricky. Certain series has polished crown guard for example. Please give them some leeway. It is not a situation whether they want to please a customer or not. Already they are facing some shortage in skilled watchmen.

And btw, a complete set 312, 351 and etc. new range is not possible to fake.

Lastly, Panerai not easy to fake as a set certainly. Because Panerai keeps changing!!! Box different, guarantee cards different, in-house mvmt has no cards and etc.

Do you seriously think that the AD's watch technician can spot the difference between a real wheel and a not-real wheel? Frankly, they can authenticate the general detail of a Panerai but not the micro details.

And is there a good fake 233 out there where it can do "simi-sai-also-have function??" I doubt..

My 2 cents

I fully support your 2 cents statement mentioned as Panerai marketing always changing....cheers

[Black Mercury]

Actually no need to authenticate....2

All papers, stickers and numbers are linked. Furthermore, I think Richemont no longer has the bandwidth to authenticate Panerai watches. It is kind of tricky. Certain series has polished crown guard for example. Please give them some leeway. It is not a situation whether they want to please a customer or not. Already they are facing some shortage in skilled watchmen.

And btw, a complete set 312, 351 and etc. new range is not possible to fake.

Lastly, Panerai not easy to fake as a set certainly. Because Panerai keeps changing!!! Box different, guarantee cards different, in-house mvmt has no cards and etc.

Do you seriously think that the AD's watch technician can spot the difference between a real wheel and a not-real wheel? Frankly, they can authenticate the general detail of a Panerai but not the micro details.

And is there a good fake 233 out there where it can do "simi-sai-also-have function??" I doubt..

My 2 cents

Dear Paneraii bro,
my 2 cents from the perspective of a newbie.

My gut feel is the same as you:
" Do you seriously think that the AD's watch technician can spot the difference between a real wheel and a not-real wheel? Frankly, they can authenticate the general detail of a Panerai but not the micro details".


My concerns:
"And btw, a complete set 312, 351 and etc. new range is not possible to fake.

Lastly, Panerai not easy to fake as a set certainly. Because Panerai keeps changing!!! Box different, guarantee cards different, in-house mvmt has no cards and etc".

As a newbie, my perspective:
1) As i do not have access to other watch models, like the seniors, who pays attention to the details.
Our product knowledge is very limited to the extent that we cannot be sure how the boxes, tools, papers and other accessories have been changed. We accept in good faith, trust only, from our sellers, that this is the complete set.


2) As 1 good brother, has expressed that all luxury watches are over-priced, in the forum, in another thread.
Cost of investment is not that high considering the returns. It is not surprising that the replica manufacturing is gaining strong and steady momentum. In planning for mass production long term, it is possible to bring high standard in fakes. The sky is the limit, as replicas push for their excellence.


3) I have also considered buying from the more affordable grey market because as a walk-in in the local boutiques, we don't get much discount. As mentioned, in the absence of manufacturing engineering details (like engineering BOM and golden sample), watching-making skills and tools, grey markets tends to buy in good faith from their suppliers. Honestly, I bought in good faith from local AD as well, after paying premium as a walk-in. Good faith because I don't and can't check but just rely on trust.


4) I am not sure about how closed the top China (or from any other country) fakes have made progress.

However, being in the industrial product distribution business, we have private investigators and industrial spies reporting that for Chinese fakes, their factories and machines, faster and better. Some of their fake products are even better built than our originals. All the boxes, tags and even holograms are replicated. How closed the fakes can be, all depend on how much investment fakes-manufacturer are throwing in.


5) Last but not least, as the longer the supply chain gets longer, passing from 1 hand to the another, theoretically, the chance of getting wrong amplified greatly.


It just take 1 person / 1 group of greedy, corrupt staff to 1 to 1 (fake for authentic) exchange in the inventory.


At the end of the day, we might not know who is telling the truth.
Life itself is a big risk.
Have seen how your favorite food is prepared? You wanna know, huh??

Hence, just enjoy the moment, wear your new watch in good health.
If in doubt, then don't proceed and then afterward feel cheated.

[BRABUS]

Actually no need to authenticate....2

All papers, stickers and numbers are linked. Furthermore, I think Richemont no longer has the bandwidth to authenticate Panerai watches. It is kind of tricky. Certain series has polished crown guard for example. Please give them some leeway. It is not a situation whether they want to please a customer or not. Already they are facing some shortage in skilled watchmen.

And btw, a complete set 312, 351 and etc. new range is not possible to fake.

Lastly, Panerai not easy to fake as a set certainly. Because Panerai keeps changing!!! Box different, guarantee cards different, in-house mvmt has no cards and etc.

Do you seriously think that the AD's watch technician can spot the difference between a real wheel and a not-real wheel? Frankly, they can authenticate the general detail of a Panerai but not the micro details.

And is there a good fake 233 out there where it can do "simi-sai-also-have function??" I doubt..

My 2 cents

Totally Agreed !
I will insists on full set with everything including movement sticker if i wanna buy a pam in future !

[mecafe1]

This is certainly a bad news for Panerai buyers who needs a piece of mind when buying used. Sad!

[FullHouse]

As mentioned,buyers must do their homeworks before getting a big ticket item!Nonetheless, getting Richmont to get verification just like a piece of mind that the watch is orginal with a certificate,my 3 cents info

[scf118c]

Nice and healthy discussion. In fact I was looking at some watches from reputable sellers in the US. With the exchange rate now, some grey sellers maybe making a tidy profit. However, no one is stopping us from buying from these overseas resellers directly.

So has Richemont stopped verification on all their watch brands or in particular Panerai?

[sandisk7]

Hmm...interesting but I don't see the logic behind the decision. I feel that this decision is going to impact all (brand, ADs, gray dealers, collectors) negatively, esp for a brand like Panerai who has a large group of followers largely because it has a strong and vibrant secondary market.

I mean who is going to buy new from AD now, unless he/she knows for sure that he/she'll keep that piece for life, as fewer people is going to take the risk to buy an used piece without the factory authentication now.

[Oceanklassik]

i went down today. since nov, they stop doing authentication. as mentioned, one reason could be they want people to buy from the AD. do note that since the the PI does take away part of their businesses. also, it does not just affect panerai, all brands under richemont cannot be authenticated. this is what is conveyed to me.

scratching the case does not affect just panerai. other brands also. what one has to ask, why are they stopping authentication?

to attempt to cut off the gray dealers who makes use of the tax rebate and exchange rate to make profit?
because AD complain that they cant sell the watches because of gray dealers?
to reduce people complain against service centre who scratch the watches? as in those people may have their watch scratch but they bring it in for authentication in pre-empt to get a free polish?

the blame game continues. why? because everyone wants a cake and eat it (abuse of system). in the past a panerai case protector was selling for $5 or given free. then what did some of them do? take them and sell for a tidy profit. as a result richemont sell them @ $30/35 a piece now.

people will be cre8ive and find a loop hole. then when the system is abuse, another rule is set to plug in the gap. i shall wait and see how cre8ive some customers are and see when they plug in the gap.

Nice and healthy discussion. In fact I was looking at some watches from reputable sellers in the US. With the exchange rate now, some grey sellers maybe making a tidy profit. However, no one is stopping us from buying from these overseas resellers directly.

So has Richemont stopped verification on all their watch brands or in particular Panerai?

Read this?

[Oceanklassik]

Richemont confirmed they do not/ cannot do verification anymore. the best they can do is to open up the caseback and provide you with the movement number now!

so, where does this bring us?

Lolz, you spot the error, any way if i bring a BNIB pam for a service and i think that will be a bit strange right? Some more in house movement is not cheap too. Correct me.

Read this?

[watchpassionist]

Will Richmont still do servicing for PAM bought from overseas AD?

Definitely else they will lose their dealership and lose entire market if they don't..

Like mentioned, if your watch had all the necessary documents included,i personally think that you don't need to bring to Richmont for vertification unless you smell a "rat" by the seller,right?

All movement stickers, cosc and guarantee card have numbers that tally with each other and can proof the authentication.

Actually no need to authenticate....2

All papers, stickers and numbers are linked. Furthermore, I think Richemont no longer has the bandwidth to authenticate Panerai watches. It is kind of tricky. Certain series has polished crown guard for example. Please give them some leeway. It is not a situation whether they want to please a customer or not. Already they are facing some shortage in skilled watchmen.

And btw, a complete set 312, 351 and etc. new range is not possible to fake.

Lastly, Panerai not easy to fake as a set certainly. Because Panerai keeps changing!!! Box different, guarantee cards different, in-house mvmt has no cards and etc.

Do you seriously think that the AD's watch technician can spot the difference between a real wheel and a not-real wheel? Frankly, they can authenticate the general detail of a Panerai but not the micro details.

And is there a good fake 233 out there where it can do "simi-sai-also-have function??" I doubt..

My 2 cents

Agree...All along from the Richmont front desk to the technicians... none have been proficient enough on the brands they are servicing and repairs. Any one of us just go in and bombard few questions on their watches, they will be stunned and speechless.

This is certainly a bad news for Panerai buyers who needs a piece of mind when buying used. Sad!

There is alw a risk but i'm sure many experts from this forum are more well versed in Pams than the local blur blur Richmont.
See below Sandisk post which i agree too

Hmm...interesting but I don't see the logic behind the decision. I feel that this decision is going to impact all (brand, ADs, gray dealers, collectors) negatively, esp for a brand like Panerai who has a large group of followers largely because it has a strong and vibrant secondary market.

I mean who is going to buy new from AD now, unless he/she knows for sure that he/she'll keep that piece for life, as fewer people is going to take the risk to buy an used piece without the factory authentication now.

Yes agree ...in fact there will be a backlash for our local ADs, instead of ppl afraid to buy used pams but i think more ppl will actually approach grey market to buy brand new as it is straight from shops too and is cheaper than our local Sincere, Cortina and Hourglass. Take for example the Rolex green hulk and deep sea, certain pam models and rare AP SE. T
he grey markets are cheaper. As for buying used from unknown source than of course you need to do some homework and maybe get an expert to tag along.

[Dmaul77]

Such a move can be a "make or break" decision for Panerai but then again it might set a trend for the rest of the brands to follow suit.

Cheers

[Ivanloh]

Read this?

Roger that!!!

[batamboy]

Heard that Jwwatch n Bonfield do some simple authentication for some brands..But unsure their level of professionalism in this case. Who try that before?

[LUKE]

We can shout as much we want to, at the end of the day, the Richemount only answer to their shareholders. Sigh!

For newbies, getting a Pam from the open markets , best u have someone who is familiar with Pams, they should be able to tell so, but dnt hold them for responsibility.

Life still goes on.

This must be the longest thread after Keith GSD straps. Good to know there is so many of us who care.