Don't understand Panerai...

[teo]

Quick question.

You can get a used base-model type Explorer-I for about $4k, or a 14060M for about $4-4.5k.

What base model Panerai can I buy to experiment with for $4.5k on the resale market? What should I look for?

Preowned with ETA movement and smelly used leather strap.
Maybe preowned one also above 4.5k.

[Destro22BT]

Quick question.

You can get a used base-model type Explorer-I for about $4k, or a 14060M for about $4-4.5k.

What base model Panerai can I buy to experiment with for $4.5k on the resale market? What should I look for?

Used to be possible a year back, but honestly right now given the current market sentiments, even the most basic pre-owned PAM112/PAM0 commands at least 5k and up.

[Ender]

Ahh... Let me share my story. In 2004, before I became a watch collector, I've always considered the Rolex as the grail watch, like many others. Face it, it's one of the top brands in the whole world. In house movement, timeless case design, as good as instant cash strapped to the wrist, that 'woah! he wears a lolek neh!' attention u get. What more can you ask?

I knew of Panerai that time, seeing as one of my neighbours donned a PAM115 Destro. A Destro Luminor felt 'right' to me with its crown guard on the left, perhaps because it's my first encounter with panerai in the flesh, though it was only a lukewarm feel towards it. It irked me knowing that Panerai houses a cheap ass unitas mvt that costs US$75. I tot to myself, maybe geddit after I get my first Rolex. In 2005, after reviewing the Rolex thread in HWZ Forum (which ultimately gave birth to sg-roc), I took the plunge and bought my first Sub Date. I was in love and it was a dream come true. Subsequently, after getting over the initial euphoria of owning the Sub Date, I tot... maybe it's time I got myself a 'lesser' watch, which I decided to be a PAM115 destro, seeing more and more ppl on the streets with Panerai strapped to their wrist. It was a difficult hunt for the watch given my budget of S$5k, but one fine day, I received a call from my AD and he mentioned that there is a piece of PAM112H available for me should I want it. The discount was fabulous, so I tot... why not? and decided that this first Panerai 112H will be a 'fun' watch. It did feel funny at first, at a huge 44mm case...and constantly, I tot my purchase was really over the top, overpaying for a watch with such a cheap movement, but wat the hell? But the funny thing was that I started to wear the Panerai more than the Subdate. And on days when I wore the Subdate, I missed my Panerai and immediately switched to it when I reached home. Funny... I thought to myself, but each time I felt that way, I assurred myself... Rolex is still the grail for me...full stop. In 2006, I sold my subdate and went for the dweller for the cleaner look. I also bought a PAM190I which was made available to me (now that is a piece that's worth it's price IMO... it's got a 8day complication). To free up funds for the PAM190, I had to sell one, and decided that it's my PAM112. And after the initial PAM190 excitement, I experienced this thing called seller's remourse. It was bad. I missed it to bits. I wanted my 112 back badly. I regretted the sale and it was difficult to say why. It just felt wrong. Though I regretted, I told myself that if I were to get a Luminor back on my wrist... but it has to be a Destro, because that's what I've always wanted. Then as fate had it arranged for me... I chanced upon a PAM22 at one of the dealers. He didn't know what he was selling me... a prized PAM22 with 'T' dial, no longer in production. He quoted me what I tot was a good price for it, and I took it without the need to even think. And recently, I cleared all my Rolex collection for Panerai. I tot to myself if I'd feel that seller's remourse for my Dweller... and feared it would strike me the second time. But somehow along the way, the dweller became just too small for me...and after months of selling it, I never did feel any remourse.

I'm not saying that Panerai sings to every man on the street, in fact, I've seen ppl ditching Panerai for Rolex simply because it's not their cuppa tea, perhaps members of sg-roc who has gone this way could share their experience?

Many have said the big watch fad will go away since 2003/2004. Look at things now, the demand for Panerai is still through the roof (not to mention its price!), how often do you actually see a piece on display at the dealers, and for how long? And let's look at Rolex... Re-edition of Milgauss at 40mm, GMT 2 having a redesigned larger-looking case, the release of deep sea dweller at 43.5mm. Why? And what next? Explorer 2 getting a larger case? I leave it to the readers to decide, dun wish to enter into an argument in any case

But for my case, some logical reasons for the love of Panerai is the case design with the crown guard, the size, the attention it gets, the versatility of it (in terms of strap choices, u'll never get enough!) and the way it holds its value NOW. But mainly, the love for Panerai is really illogical for me...I really can't explain... I just smile everytime its on my wrist, it feels good to wind it every morning, and like how many Paneristi sum it up... Get your first Panerai and u'll know why.

eh, can summarise?
To me, the appeal of Pams is simply their looks. Their luminor case is so distinctive and eye-catching. Another plus point is their versatility offered by their simple strap changing mechanism and the various strap options out there. If you talk about increasing prices, what other brands (worth your consideration) have not gone up? I like rolex (especially the daytonas ) but at the price they are being offered, also makes me wonder if I am really getting value for money. Maybe bottomline is that this hobby, you shld not consider getting value for money.
Bubble burst? Donno ... the US economy has slowed down so much but you still see the prices going up up and away...
RXW and other homage pieces? These are really value for money. But you gotta be honest with yourself and confess if that is good enough. It's like getting a less salt, less black sauce, less chinese sausage, less cockles, healthy cha kway tiao when what you really want is a plate of greasy, heart-stopping, no-holds barred, RA CKT... eat the healthy version already, will your craving for CKT be really satisfied? If it really is, good for you. If otherwise.....

[Oceanklassik]

Your charkwaytiao makes me drool..yum-yum

[jazz_samz]

I tried on a friend's PAM just two months ago.. his was an 8day reserve, JLC movement.. duno wat model as I am not very familiar with the brand.

looks chunky and slightly retro (imho) and I didn't like it.. but as I see more and more ppl on the streets wearing one, it does gets a little itchy to go check one out.. Maybe later (maybe like Destro22BT) then will look into owning one?? But I suspect by the time I am good and ready, price may have gone further North

For now, rather focus on getting another Rollie then maybe a FM or JLC before I revisit the idea of owning a Pam.

[feudallordcult]

i have to be honest, i'm slowly being sucked into this "pam" thingy. i didn't get this special "feeling" with my omega smp(flipped), not with heuer(flipped), not with azimuth (lost), not with breitling (my brother's blackbird). It somehow felt different when I bought a rollie. i tried a pam SS daylight in thg tangs few weeks ago. didn't sing to me leh, maybe i'm not ready for the baptism of conversion yet?

[Ender]

i have to be honest, i'm slowly being sucked into this "pam" thingy. i didn't get this special "feeling" with my omega smp(flipped), not with heuer(flipped), not with azimuth (lost), not with breitling (my brother's blackbird). It somehow felt different when I bought a rollie. i tried a pam SS daylight in thg tangs few weeks ago. didn't sing to me leh, maybe i'm not ready for the baptism of conversion yet?

one thing to consider... once I started on the pams, i realised that the rolexes felt unnaturally light, even the daytonas. cld not get over it as such lightness made me feel that they were fragile/ flimsy

[MP-01]

For me, Panerai also wasn't appealing to me at first. But the love of the watch grows much deeper as days goes by.

Its the distinctive look and crown case that is the appeal. The variety of straps is also another factor. Interestingly their watches give a different look when paired with different straps.

I mean if anyone is bothered about precise time telling, no one will be buying an automatic watch in the first place. So basically its a matter of personal choice.

Well, can always try on the watches that you like and then decide which one is closer to your heart. Happy shopping.

[minusplus]

I am like many others here. Panerais never appealed to me and I could never understand why it was so popular.

Slowly, once you see one, hold one, and wear one, you will start to appreciate them

[Taurus75]

other than the aesthetic appeal of Pams like the huge straps options for them and the unique design that makes them stand out , I think most importantly, the appeal of Pams is the exclusivity that it brands itself. The idea of limited units produced each year for each model create the perception that if you purchased a Pam, you get an exclusive timepiece . This is a strategy that we can see being employed by many watch brands in which they create a particular model in limited edition for commemoration of certain events and then they priced them considerably higher as compared to relatively similar models under their brand. With Pams, it is like limited edition for all its models. They bank on the strategy of exclusivity of its brand and thereby create a demand for its watches. So as its brand name grows, demand for its watches grows as well but its strategy of limited supplies remain ....basic economics mechanism then takes over - as long as its demand exceeds its supplies, it can always command higer prices.

there are always those who like Pams and those who do not be it if its really worth the $ . the equation of cost/value cannot be justified or quantified and at the end, the justification to own one usually hangs on a thin line between mind and heart.. juz my 2cents worth

[triton]

I tried on a friend's PAM just two months ago.. his was an 8day reserve, JLC movement.. duno wat model as I am not very familiar with the brand.

how much is it? pam 90 last check is 9400. JLC 8 days is ~11000. pam using JLC movement? then means not value for money in getting a JLC (in that sense if one is getting a power reserve feature).

however, the JLC also provide a day/night display. surely this does not cost that much right?

if price difference is 1k, would you get a pam PR or a JLC PR?

for me, if want sporty look, go for Pam, if want to go for dress look, JLC.

[Oceanklassik]

Well said..

[Ender]

how much is it? pam 90 last check is 9400. JLC 8 days is ~11000. pam using JLC movement? then means not value for money in getting a JLC (in that sense if one is getting a power reserve feature).

however, the JLC also provide a day/night display. surely this does not cost that much right?

if price difference is 1k, would you get a pam PR or a JLC PR?

for me, if want sporty look, go for Pam, if want to go for dress look, JLC.

jazz? this one? http://www.panerai.com/s_page.xpd?id...categoria=3205
if so, it actually looks very good with formal shirt and pants. for sporty look, better go with the luminor casing...

[Destro22BT]

i have to be honest, i'm slowly being sucked into this "pam" thingy. i didn't get this special "feeling" with my omega smp(flipped), not with heuer(flipped), not with azimuth (lost), not with breitling (my brother's blackbird). It somehow felt different when I bought a rollie. i tried a pam SS daylight in thg tangs few weeks ago. didn't sing to me leh, maybe i'm not ready for the baptism of conversion yet?

Bro feudallordcult, maybe u should try on a simpler PAM? For sure, different strokes for different folks, maybe your preference is in chronographs in regards to Panerai. I sure do like chronos, but when it comes to Panerai, my preference is towards the simple dials and manual winds, 112, 111, 219, 176,177. Hold it in your hands, wind it, and maybe u'll fall in love with it?

[Darkangel]

very interesting thread.

i had the same questions as you did.

but frankly, when you see a panerai. it really does appeal and attract.

with the different straps combi, it is a very attractive watch. amidst my fave rolexes, i have a sole 005 to cure my inert fantasy. owning one is probably enough with the many straps i am planning to get. i also set myself a limit for the pam. nothing more than 6k for one. anything more, a rolex is a rolex is a rolex. 10k for a pam, i rather a full gold DD.

current prices are driven by economics - supplier restricts supply and so on...

when you see the whoole package of the pam, you will see that is a worth your $.

you are right in that they use base ETA movement but do refer to another thread where this was discuss, watch makers like pam and such rebuild the components to their specs.

it is quite personal. perhaps, once you have cured your urges for rolexes, other temptations will kick in...

cheers.

YES!! Fellow DD lover! DD FTW! hahaha..I am trying to aim for the YG DJ/DD but still afraid YG doesn't suit me.

Ahh... Let me share my story. In 2004, before I became a watch collector, I've always considered the Rolex as the grail watch, like many others. Face it, it's one of the top brands in the whole world. In house movement, timeless case design, as good as instant cash strapped to the wrist, that 'woah! he wears a lolek neh!' attention u get. What more can you ask?

I knew of Panerai that time, seeing as one of my neighbours donned a PAM115 Destro. A Destro Luminor felt 'right' to me with its crown guard on the left, perhaps because it's my first encounter with panerai in the flesh, though it was only a lukewarm feel towards it. It irked me knowing that Panerai houses a cheap ass unitas mvt that costs US$75. I tot to myself, maybe geddit after I get my first Rolex. In 2005, after reviewing the Rolex thread in HWZ Forum (which ultimately gave birth to sg-roc), I took the plunge and bought my first Sub Date. I was in love and it was a dream come true. Subsequently, after getting over the initial euphoria of owning the Sub Date, I tot... maybe it's time I got myself a 'lesser' watch, which I decided to be a PAM115 destro, seeing more and more ppl on the streets with Panerai strapped to their wrist. It was a difficult hunt for the watch given my budget of S$5k, but one fine day, I received a call from my AD and he mentioned that there is a piece of PAM112H available for me should I want it. The discount was fabulous, so I tot... why not? and decided that this first Panerai 112H will be a 'fun' watch. It did feel funny at first, at a huge 44mm case...and constantly, I tot my purchase was really over the top, overpaying for a watch with such a cheap movement, but wat the hell? But the funny thing was that I started to wear the Panerai more than the Subdate. And on days when I wore the Subdate, I missed my Panerai and immediately switched to it when I reached home. Funny... I thought to myself, but each time I felt that way, I assurred myself... Rolex is still the grail for me...full stop. In 2006, I sold my subdate and went for the dweller for the cleaner look. I also bought a PAM190I which was made available to me (now that is a piece that's worth it's price IMO... it's got a 8day complication). To free up funds for the PAM190, I had to sell one, and decided that it's my PAM112. And after the initial PAM190 excitement, I experienced this thing called seller's remourse. It was bad. I missed it to bits. I wanted my 112 back badly. I regretted the sale and it was difficult to say why. It just felt wrong. Though I regretted, I told myself that if I were to get a Luminor back on my wrist... but it has to be a Destro, because that's what I've always wanted. Then as fate had it arranged for me... I chanced upon a PAM22 at one of the dealers. He didn't know what he was selling me... a prized PAM22 with 'T' dial, no longer in production. He quoted me what I tot was a good price for it, and I took it without the need to even think. And recently, I cleared all my Rolex collection for Panerai. I tot to myself if I'd feel that seller's remourse for my Dweller... and feared it would strike me the second time. But somehow along the way, the dweller became just too small for me...and after months of selling it, I never did feel any remourse.

I'm not saying that Panerai sings to every man on the street, in fact, I've seen ppl ditching Panerai for Rolex simply because it's not their cuppa tea, perhaps members of sg-roc who has gone this way could share their experience?

Many have said the big watch fad will go away since 2003/2004. Look at things now, the demand for Panerai is still through the roof (not to mention its price!), how often do you actually see a piece on display at the dealers, and for how long? And let's look at Rolex... Re-edition of Milgauss at 40mm, GMT 2 having a redesigned larger-looking case, the release of deep sea dweller at 43.5mm. Why? And what next? Explorer 2 getting a larger case? I leave it to the readers to decide, dun wish to enter into an argument in any case

But for my case, some logical reasons for the love of Panerai is the case design with the crown guard, the size, the attention it gets, the versatility of it (in terms of strap choices, u'll never get enough!) and the way it holds its value NOW. But mainly, the love for Panerai is really illogical for me...I really can't explain... I just smile everytime its on my wrist, it feels good to wind it every morning, and like how many Paneristi sum it up... Get your first Panerai and u'll know why.

First thing...I cant believe I finish reading this...hahahha

Some love it...some hate it...it's ur call ultimately.

I am like many others here. Panerais never appealed to me and I could never understand why it was so popular.

Slowly, once you see one, hold one, and wear one, you will start to appreciate them

I am still sticking to my wish of Big Bang,FM,PP and Rollies I try not to have more than that hahas