Panerai Price Dropping!

[feilong108]

hey...y the mention about ah bengs only know about rolexes???i am 1 of the ang kong beng who know about brands other than rolex ok....u have something against ah bengs?

Hehehehe..relax guys....chillout....just a forum and no need to defend here and there....

[exxondus]

i am not trying to defend Fred.... but in this thread, he did not use the word "arrogant" against any member....

oh i my bad, i cant rem all the things he called me. I beleve its ignorant and not arrogant.

the rest I cant really rem but barking at the wrong tree sounds to me like indirectly calling me a dog? No? nm just forget it.

barking at the wrong tree

Meaning

Making a mistake or a false assumption in something you are trying to achieve.

Origin

The allusion is to hunting dogs barking at the bottom of trees where they mistakenly think their quarry is hiding.

and whats with the issue that as long as anything is something that he doesnt know, e.g. transactions,. pricing that he wasnt aware, its considered wrong and he has a wrong to shoot down? just curious thats all.

[exxondus]

will i get to buy pam 233 @ 14.5k below? last year want to buy 16k. now i heard 14.5k can buy. if can hor, 1.5k savings. can buy more straps.

triton bro, hobbylink got a 233 listed at 14,350 only.

taken from their webbie:


"
K Series Panerai PAM 233 GMT 8 day Movement 1950


Movement: hand-wound mechanical, Panerai Calibre P.2002, completely manufactured by Panerai, second time zone, 8-day power reserve, 24h indicator, second reset device. Case: diameter 44 mm, brushed steel. Bezel: polished steel. Back: see-through sapphire crystal. Crystal: sapphire, made from corundum, 2 mm thick. Anti reflective coating. Water-resistance: 100 meters. Strap: calf with Panerai personalised steel large-size buckle. Supplied with a steel screwdriver and a second interchangeable rubber strap. Very mint condition like new, Box and open papers, selling $14,350
"

Not sure if hobbylink is like Jwatch where you need to add GST thou. Preowned but below your 14.5k. all the best if you getting!!

[ohlins]

the rest I cant really rem but barking at the wrong tree sounds to me like indirectly calling me a dog? No? nm just forget it.

that is a figure of speech..... :P

[exxondus]

that is a figure of speech..... :P

ok lah, guess i was just being petty haha...kk got your point..anyway, just wanna let it rest since both he and I already typed our views. If you see fit, can delete my post so that it might not be used as fuel in future by mistake.

This is a great and enjoyable forum as well as informative. wanna keep it that way rather than become a war zone....

Cheers!

[Fred_Tan]

Chia lat

Ah Beng oso know IWC, PP, OP, AP, Lange, JLC liao...
I must be very suaku

[Fred_Tan]

Not necessary rounded, sometimes can be sharp as well

This I agree, cos got a trader told me can always polish and post its LNIB and unworn after that and sell much higher

but for the inexperienced, its really hard to tell when a watch had been repolished. Most buyers only look at price and honestly, you cant blame them for doing so. Its been mentioned that unless you know the grey dealer very well, its better to buy from ADs whom will not shortchange you in such a way.


Is it true that after 1 polish, the effect is prettry obvious? I mean, would it really take off a lot of the metal and cause a bit of thining, resulting in the rounding corners that you mentioned

Like the bottom of lugs on 1950 case, a very slight polishing at Richemont will make it slightly sharp.
More polish & it will be even sharper...

But on e top of e lugs, a very slight polish will result in roundings.
More deeper polish will make it rounder.

Richemont will guarantee 70% case, lugs, back plate / ring shape & brushed texture will not be lost.
Meaning every time u send a watch to Havelock Rd, u lose 30%.

This mean bottom lug will get sharper & sharper.
While e top will get rounder with each polish.

For a Luminor, bottom & top of e lugs will get rounder.
For Rad, it's e hardest to see....dunno where to see oso, LOL

[Ender]

[QUOTE=Fred_Tan;218078]YES, I agree.
Price are less insane now for PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K that got whacked by 305, 312 & 320 and soon 321....I agree, time to pick PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K up before SWATCH group stopped allowing ETA6497 & 7750 from being decorated by Panerai starting from 2016....
...
Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.
...
In fact Panerai is the only brand with select model like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 that never depreciate even in this downturn or in 2000 due to Dot.com bubble burst, 2001 (911), 2003 (Desert Storm 2 & SARS) since they started public sale in 1998.
...
QUOTE]

Agree that prices are now more 'reasonable' for more common pieces like a 0,5,111, 112 etc now.
Disagree that for pieces like 1a/bt, 2a/bt, 4, 9, 203 etc that prices did not drop during recent downturn.
As in any other brands, some models hold their value better than others.

[Destro22BT]

I have to agree with Ender.

Take my 22BT for example. In Q1 2008, I posted up some picts on P.com of my PAM22BT on a new ammo strap and in came emails offering S$X+4k for the set. I sold it off at S$X early this month. And many of the bros here saw my ad on P.com for a couple of months before it was finally sold.

And if anyone needs to compare, you can always dig out K.Chen's FS post history on p.com for models like PAM112G (just for example) and see how much prices have fallen.

DUN FLAME ME PLS

[Fred_Tan]

I have to agree with Ender.

Take my 22BT for example. In Q1 2008, I posted up some picts on P.com of my PAM22BT on a new ammo strap and in came emails offering S$X+4k for the set. I sold it off at S$X early this month. And many of the bros here saw my ad on P.com for a couple of months before it was finally sold.

And if anyone needs to compare, you can always dig out K.Chen's FS post history on p.com for models like PAM112G (just for example) and see how much prices have fallen.

DUN FLAME ME PLS

Yes, current & common models like 0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 111, 112, 113, 114, 164, 212 & 240 price dropped but not as bad as any other brands like IWC, JLC, Rolex.
I think these models registered the least dropped when compared to other brands.

22BT was asking for like 28k 2 yrs ago...
but I know it only actually changed hand at 18k even at it's peak in Jun-08 with an Indonesian buyer....
Pay anything higher and u'd overpaid.....
Anyway, based on prices that was "actually" executed, transacted and not price that was asked in all the Posts by dealers which I have been recording in my humble Excel, I don't think 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 194, 195, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 did go down. So, again I reiterate, NO, price didn't drop for these models at all if we look at real transacted price compared between lows in Mar 2009 and highs in Sep-08.

In fact, 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 194, 195, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 prices has been going up since mid-09.

Panerai is 1st brand with select models like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 to register transacted price increase along with 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219 since mid-09.

Sadly, for 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164 & 240, the price will con't to slide as 305, 312, 320 & 321 will take it's place.

I do not compare price based on FS asking.
I know I cannot use FS as it's manipulated by buyers & sellers alike.
I must not include SGD35k asking for 217....30k for 249....29k for 292J...20k for 232....35k for 195.....29k for 123....200k for 203....32k for 26BT.....400k for 21...as I know they never changed hand.

In stock prices, ur portfolio & worth is valued at closed bid & not ask.
I treat the same for watches.

And, I ignore all low collectors pricing as they may need to sell cheap due to lack of Reference.
There're collectors here & in other forums who try to bring e mart down by posting fake FS with low prices, which I ignore.
There're also sellers whom posted high prices with no watches to spurn e mart esp in 2007 & 2008.
These ppl whom seldom trade & appear suddenly as they dissapear are also ignored by me.

I only look at price that was actually sold by traders as it's what the mart is, and it's standardize; something like SGX lar....easi to compare.

So in conclusion, I think everyone will agree, apart from 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164 & 240, Panerai price has stabilized & had started to increase.

I also think, every one will agree that Panerai remain as the only brand with least depreciation for 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219.

I also think based on real transacted prices, Panerai is the only brand where select models like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 never go down at all.

And, 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s, 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 21, 22B-T, 23B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 123, 127, 203, 217, 232, 237, 239, 249, 292J & 301 along with 0, 5, 111, 112, 176, 177 & 219 are starting to increase, e 1st brand to do so since mid tis yr.

[Fred_Tan]

[QUOTE=Ender;218615]

YES, I agree.
Price are less insane now for PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K that got whacked by 305, 312 & 320 and soon 321....I agree, time to pick PAM0, 5, 24, 25, 88, 90, 104, 164, 212, 240 & 292K up before SWATCH group stopped allowing ETA6497 & 7750 from being decorated by Panerai starting from 2016....
...
Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.
...
In fact Panerai is the only brand with select model like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 that never depreciate even in this downturn or in 2000 due to Dot.com bubble burst, 2001 (911), 2003 (Desert Storm 2 & SARS) since they started public sale in 1998.
...
QUOTE]

Agree that prices are now more 'reasonable' for more common pieces like a 0,5,111, 112 etc now.
Disagree that for pieces like 1a/bt, 2a/bt, 4, 9, 203 etc that prices did not drop during recent downturn.
As in any other brands, some models hold their value better than others.

Yes, I think it's time we collect some Lum 0, 5, 1, 2, 111, 112, 113, 114, 56, 61, 176, 177 & etc...I think the stock of 'modified' 6497 will surely run out in 5-6 years time...

As for for 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 28B-T, 36, 56, 89, 91, 92, 93, 115, 117, 194, 195, 203, 239, 267 & 292J and many others, u know I based my pricing on real transacted price and not asking in FS.
The real transacted price never moved much till Min-09 when they start to creep up again...they never gone down...

[Democritus]

If our service & price is high, so dun buy from us.
Ban us from SG-ROC.
Ban me.
Ban us all from all forums for that matter.

I learn from you all.
If I made a mistake I will admit it.
I am not here to spite or put down anyone.
But I cannot sit down & hear facts that are not truth.

Ppl may tell something out of misinformation.
Forums are meant to share information.
But I don't think forum members here or in any forums want to be given false of half truths...

If I go over VP & P.com or any other forum & made a broad-brushed statement like "Panerai Price Dropping", I will get toasted with at least 100 responses in matter of hours cos it's not the truth.

BUT, I expect others to be ready to corrected if they are wrong.
Ppl who keep harping on issue that's far from reality & truth is not here for the benefits of others.
They are merely here to propagate their egos & I dun wan to be that and I dun like that when I see it happening blatantly.

Ppl who who think emselves as the police of this forum & threaten others with call for ban are the worst in any forum.
This ppl have no right whatsover to think they own the forum when they dun.

Who called for ban? Thought it was your goodself? Ohlins....do you want try and justify aqain?

All who are into Pams know the 'truth', like what ender and destro22bt mentioned, knows that What you (Fred) said is not true...

'Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.'

And here you are being so annoyed that others have posted mis-information.

I have yet to meet such a narcissistic person who front his arrogance under the self-proclaimation of self-devised bias knowledge and support them with showcase of high net-worth.

[Fred_Tan]

If our service & price is high, so dun buy from us.
Ban us from SG-ROC.
Ban me.
Ban us all from all forums for that matter.




Who called for ban? Thought it was your goodself? Ohlins....do you want try and justify aqain?

All who are into Pams know the 'truth', like what ender and destro22bt mentioned, knows that What you (Fred) said is not true...

'Some of the rarer ones like 2/156, 3646s, 6152s, 6154, 201s & 301s, 1B-T, 2B-T, 4, 9, 16, 21, 22B-T, 26B-T, 36, 56, 115, 117, 203, 239, & 267 had never gone down even for a dime in 2008 or 2009.'

And here you are being so annoyed that others have posted mis-information.

I have yet to meet such a narcissistic person who front his arrogance under the self-proclaimation of self-devised bias knowledge and support them with showcase of high net-worth.

Now look who's jumping up & down.
I made my statements based on Excel sheet that I use to keep track of transacted price so tat I know e mart in order to flip watches.
Forgive me I get u so worked out.

What I say is the closed transacted price which I meticulously keep track of it's my livelyhood.
Not some price that some1 pluck from the sky that are based on FS ask or bid price that never got closed.

I don't ask to be agreed on.
I just want to share...

Many member will agree & disagree with me.
If I have annoyed you in anyway which I dun see how, pls accept my apologies.

[Fred_Tan]

We all need to know what we are into

1) WTS & WTB asking & bid price is not e watch value
2) Not all grey traders are good & not all are bad
3) Many times the transacted or closed deal price is way below the bid & ask price listed WTB & WTS which we dunno but with some asking around, we can know...
4) Not all members in all forums (SG-ROC included) are true members.

The 4th item is that I'm going to dwelve into today:

- These members are trolls & moles that joined long ago.
- "super lao jiaos" they are called.
- These moles & trolls even joined GTG.
- U see them in forums. They buy many watches.
- They posted pics of their watches & even their family. U knoe em as ur frens.
- They are what u em expect to be, true members...
- But they are not....
- They are ppl who works for grey-traders....
- The exist to give good recommendation & fake references for certain grey-traders....
- They are paid by discounts on select items to bring down competiting grey-traders by spreading false rumors & even ridiculing em in forums like this...
- We see this attacks today
- These super lao jiao has many login names with same IP.
- That's y VP & P.com start monitoring IP and banning members with multi-login w same IP 2 yrs ago....
- They use this multi-login when IP was not tracked in P & VP.com 2 yrs ago to spurn mart by posting fake WTB & WTS
- These days, when IP add r tracked, these ppl have nothing to do but to make fake recommendations & references or spread lies about other members or traders like me.
- Many of these lao jiaos are banned from WatchNet, P, VP, BigWatch, ConnectingWatches, TZ, WUS, Rolex Forum for molling & trolling.
- Some of them still exist as they were not caught or were recently recruited with new IP & logins.
- They act like moderators when they are not.
- Ppl whom they dun disagree on will get attacked, like me.
- When e mods dun take action on what they see as dissenting member, they even chidded e mods.
- They r more powerful than mods & forum owners
- They act like they know everything when they actually do not.
- They like to ask mod to ban ppl like me who they thought can contravene their ideas


5) And, we also see that many traders couldn't post in PuristSPro, WatchNet, P, VP, BigWatch, ConnectingWatches, TZ, WUS & Rolex Forum...are they lazy or is business very good? I dun think so....Some of em use to post many many yrs ago....they got banned for spurning, selling swapped watch, selling items that are not described & etc


In conclusion, we all know they are if you check & do a bit of homework.
So be careful of these lao jiaos who use a lot of calls to other members & even mods to take actions on others who make dissenting views.
Be careful when u a member say the other is always wrong, they are always rite like PAP.

They r ppl who will never admit they know less or know nothing..
They dun wanna share...
They are here for other vested parties...

[Taipan]

OP forever...

Told my friends PAM is a fashion watch... looks like I am right pricing falling due 2 no demand... kekekeke

PAM quality also cannot beat ROLEX or PTAEK... NO WAY!

Officine Panerai is a solid Italian brand from a country that has fiery passion, fashion and the best sports cars in the world! Their cuisine is popular. I don't know much about their wines but pizza and pasta is already like a staple for other cultures. Panerai watches are also unique and have an actual military history. Pams are quirky and attract admirers who share the same appeal much like the way that Alfa Romeos have a niche following. OP has models that are sexy and sporty. They are here to stay. I have even seen Pams in pawnshops and also saw people bidding for them at pawnbroker auctions. Recently, some Pams have even been appearing for sale in our local forums with no boxes and appears. It has garnered the attention from replica makers just like the rollies. Is it not often said that copying is the sincerest form of flattery? Anyway it requires a substantial foundation for any watch company to be able to put up an exhibition in a museum halfway across the globe. So I would not be so quick to dismiss Pams just yet...viva la Panerai!