Panerai Price Dropping!

[Fred_Tan]

Special crown? All Luminor have a e same crown protection system... What crown?

To share with all pam fans.

Pam Marina crown was distributed in 1956 and patented in US in 1960. There is a history behind the crown. Therefore, Pam crown is special.

All Luminor have a e same crown protection mechanism since 1940s.
The patent papers was files in 1956.
But the it was already fitted to 6152/1 since 1940s, 15-16years, earlier.

I know u just Googled the "special crown" just now.
I bet u dun even know that it's not even a crown.
It's a crown protection system.
Not crown.


Panerai never do anything special w their bloody crown.
The protection system is a lever bar that can be turned 180 degrees from top to bottom and that's not a crown for goodness sake.

For goodness sake, if u dunno what u r toking about, pls refrain from being expert.
I myself are not expert & no1 is.

Pls pls pls dun shame urself here....

[Fred_Tan]

dun need to ask for forgiveness, i am a newbie.
or did u mix up the model to 219?

In this forum alone there are 2 case of 115 above 12 k

here is one that is above 12k
http://sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=1...ghlight=pam115

15k oso have leh
http://sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=3104&highlight=115g

this is why i say 115 price drop/fall.

That price never changed hand, believe me.
Over here when we say pricing, we refer to done deal price...not posted price.
Some1 posted in Paneristi in Apr 2008 asking for SGD40k for a PAM127E..
Does that mean PAM127E hit 40K?

The same good fella posted again e next week asking for SGD45k PAM217H....

He then posted SGD28K for a 249I the next mth in May.......

He has no pics...someone later finds out that he's just helping an irresponsible trader who's no longer in this business here to push up e price as every time we call him, he says e watch is already onhold.

The funny thing is e watch is already onhold 60s after it was posted as we called him very e moment e 3rd watch (249) was posted.

We reported him & his IP was banned 4ever....and the trader has lost his previlage to post in Paneristi as well & lost his business as a result.

Recently we also monitoring another trader here in Spore who always say his watch is sold or taken or onhold moments after he posted....he's being investigated for spurring right now....

My point is I only note down price that really changed hands by discussing with fella traders here on weekly basis. I visit em often & talk to em all e time.
We know e price that really got executed.

So when u see a 13+k 115, do u really believe that it was sold even when the thread indicate so?
Dun just look at threads...
They can be severely misleading.
A 5980/1A was posted for SGD106,500K 1.5 years ago.
What happened?
I went w e buyer & met e seller.
The deal was done at just SGD75k.

Maybe the seller is ur fren.
But even then, how do u knoe he really received 13+k.
He could boast he got it, right? When in actual fact he only got 10k?

Take my word, if anyone paid above 10k for a new 115 a year or two ago, he did a lot of charity...or he was cheated by a grey dealer like me

[Paneraii]

This strike another point.

Good bargain or good price is indeed good if you can get the watch. Some post low price, alot of response, and repost again and again. Test water, you know what I mean.

[Paneraii]

Erm. I think there is one NOS 115 that was tagged more than 11k in a shop. And a few were listed S$10k or more on P com. I am sure someone paid high for them though.

[Democritus]

I sold my 115 for close to 11K....Do I need to publicised it?

No one knows everything that is going on, so better be a little more humble and restrained.

I have also seen Pam 1A trading at highs of over 20K now below 20K. I have bought and sold 217/232 at highs (28K/13K) and low of (21K/10K) in recent times.

Similarly, I know of a Rolex Exp 2 (steve Mcqueen) that was traded for $27K at the high and some traded at lows of near $20K

But, there's no need for me to highlight to you cos you seem to know every single deal that took place on planet earth!

While you are so well-connected, just puzzles me that when someone asked for your reference (at the other Pam site) and none of your local good dealer friends whom you say you have weekly discussion with came forward and verified for you.

Mods,

It is gentlemanly to argee to disagree. However, it is another thing to be calling people names (like shameless, shout your mouth etc). That's just plain arrogance (which I am not sure stems from where) and lack of social etiquette.

I suggest you lock the thread cos I see most of the rudeness coming from a single party who even challenged you to ban him.

I am going to practice some self-restrain and stop commenting on this thread, else I thread (no puns intended) on character assassination.

[Fred_Tan]

No hard feelings here

I learn from you all.
If I made a mistake I will admit it.
I am not here to spite or put down anyone.
But I cannot sit down & hear facts that are not truth.

Ppl may tell something out of misinformation.
Forums are meant to share information.
But I don't think forum members here or in any forums want to be given false of half truths...

If I go over VP & P.com or any other forum & made a broad-brushed statement like "Panerai Price Dropping", I will get toasted with at least 100 responses in matter of hours cos it's not the truth.

If P & VP.com members find out that I dunno how a crown protector lever system is totally different from a crown and I still pretend to tell other members there that the crown in special & start to google & throw in dates like 1956 & 1960, I dun think members there will luv me very much.
And no members in any forum for that matter.

Dun pretend to be guru cos there's no guru on any subject.
I'm not & far from it.

And, if I confuse the term Marina with with special crown and still wanna be expert there, I dun think any member in VP or P or any forums is gonna remember me with good thoughts.

I spend more of my time in P.com and when I'm not online, I spend my time in grey dealers shop to share pricing & stock info.
I also talk to all the ADs in town to share more info.

We cannot live without info.
I cannot.
No1 can.

But I can live without wrong info.

If I'm overseas, I will visit all the grey traders & ADs no matter how far they are to share more info.
I clock 600,000km every year looking for watches.

My point is, I am not right all the time.
I can be totally wrong & biased.
Dun believe me. & I welcome you all to correct me & others.
I'm here to get to know u all & learn from you great ppl here.
I have no qualms from being told of my errors & getting bashed by you all.
If I made a mistake, I'm sorry and I want to be corrected by good members like u all.
Otherwise, why would I even bother to be here.

BUT, I expect others to be ready to corrected if they are wrong.
Ppl who keep harping on issue that's far from reality & truth is not here for the benefits of others.
They are merely here to propagate their egos & I dun wan to be that and I dun like that when I see it happening blatantly.

Ppl who know me personally know I am not a arrogant guy.

Ppl who who think emselves as the police of this forum & threaten others with call for ban are the worst in any forum.
This ppl have no right whatsover to think they own the forum when they dun.

[Fred_Tan]

Again, you're right. I am always wrong

I sold my 115 for close to 11K....Do I need to publicised it?

No one knows everything that is going on, so better be a little more humble and restrained.

I have also seen Pam 1A trading at highs of over 20K now below 20K. I have bought and sold 217/232 at highs (28K/13K) and low of (21K/10K) in recent times.

Similarly, I know of a Rolex Exp 2 (steve Mcqueen) that was traded for $27K at the high and some traded at lows of near $20K

But, there's no need for me to highlight to you cos you seem to know every single deal that took place on planet earth!

While you are so well-connected, just puzzles me that when someone asked for your reference (at the other Pam site) and none of your local good dealer friends whom you say you have weekly discussion with came forward and verified for you.

Mods,

It is gentlemanly to argee to disagree. However, it is another thing to be calling people names (like shameless, shout your mouth etc). That's just plain arrogance (which I am not sure stems from where) and lack of social etiquette.

I suggest you lock the thread cos I see most of the rudeness coming from a single party who even challenged you to ban him.

I am going to practice some self-restrain and stop commenting on this thread, else I thread (no puns intended) on character assassination.

Well, what can I say?
Yes, only you speaks the truth here.
You're right.

What else you need?
You are the best.
You know it all.

Is that enough?

I am always humble & ready to be corrected if I'm wrong.
I can say sorry to everyone here if I'm wrong.
And to anyone who has been offended by me, I'm sorry.

But, I'm not sorry for highlighting lies that some ppl here wanna spread.
I stand to be corrected.

A grey dealer who putting in a reference for another grey dealer in P.com?
Will that work?
Will I want to put in a reference for Kim Choy, William, Kenneth, Richard, James, Barry, Terence & Sam who compete with me on sales?
I think not.
Will they? I think not.
You must be kidding, right?

And if Kim Choy, William, Kenneth, Richard, James, Barry, Terence, Sam & myself put in a good references for me or each other in all forums, will u & the public believe it?
We can do it...but what is the point?
Reference should be buyers to sellers & vice versa.
Not traders to traders.

Can u imagine THG saying Cortina, Watches of Switzerland & etc is good & vice versa.
Who will believe it?

Asking the mod to ban me shows your true colours.
You couldn't accept there are always some1 more right than u.
So, when u think some1 here has proven u wrong or out to shadow you cos he/she has more knowledge than u, which I am not, u use this mantra that some1 is rude, not gentlemen, lack ethiques, arrogant & etc.

Looks who's calling ppl names now...

[Fred_Tan]

Yea, I agree

This strike another point.

Good bargain or good price is indeed good if you can get the watch. Some post low price, alot of response, and repost again and again. Test water, you know what I mean.

I have received emails from sellers who posted under different login name in many forums with same ip address try to post FS on watches they dun have with price that are way below mart....

Now, dun get me wrong here...this is an open economy.
Such practise is not illegal.

My point is, when we see FS price that are low with no pics, no phone number, just an email, and u always get respond that the item is already onhold even when u replied within seconds after e post was put up....we need to ignore these ppl....as their intent is to push price down...

From another group of ppl who are known as troll and moles in other forums, they are specifically hired & working with dealers to jack price up by posting WTB this & tat model....When u email them to make an offer, u get short replies that they have found a watch just seconds after they put up the post.
These same ppl could be putting FS posts at ridiculously high asking price...
The funny thing is they always say the watch is already onhold minutes after the post went up.
These ppl have pictures these days as all forums now require photos.

Also, this trolls & moles always put in good reference for that particular trader....when u see more 30+ responses to Reference request from members u have never seen that suddenly appear from nowhere....u gotta be careful....

Sadly, we cannot prove this.
All this are not wrong.

I strongly recommend that forums start to ask for prove of date in at least one photo with the watch....a photo of e watch with latest major newspaper as a backdrop can minimize this issue....

And for local SG-ROC, I think it's time we made phone numbers compulsary in all WFS & WTB post.
Also, I strongly urge the forum owners here to show IP address of all post to reduce these elements.
These action may not eliminate but at least reduce these cheats.

[DM101]

Told my friends PAM is a fashion watch... looks like I am right pricing falling due 2 no demand... kekekeke

PAM quality also cannot beat ROLEX or PTAEK... NO WAY!

[exxondus]

Fred, don mind me saying this and no offence intended to you or to anyone.

I read your later threads and understand that you mentioned you are a very straight person and don like to beat ard the bush and stuff like that.

And from the figures and facts that you posted, its very obvious that you are a very experienced trader and know a lot of stuff.

but its also true that you are not a person that tries to look at views/opinions from other people. anyone tht disagrees with you or feels differently, you put them down as not having the facts.

That I feel is really uncalled for. You can correct them and share your experience if you wish, but to call people arrogant and giving baseless facts, barking at wrong tree, is really a bit too attacking.

you have to first understand that a lot of forumers here are just buyers looking for a good deal. they arent traders like yourself and know the inside out of operations.

This thread has a title that PAM price is dropping.

As a buyer, I will think oh ya, really hor, now 5k can get preown 0, 9k can get 312 (pardon I only mention these 2 as like I said, I am a buyer and really don bother about other models that I have no interest in). that to me is really a price drop cos cheaper now. I don see how that could offend you that much that you need to attack me personally.

When I look at my GMTIIc prices in preown section, I am also sian to see it drop to 7.8k range where as ADs still selling at 9.5 with at most 5% discount. to me, its also a drop.

After which, I merely felt that it could be due to a influence by grey dealers as well as the way that ROLEX mass produces as compared to a more controlled porduction from PAM. As a buyer, of cos I wont know the figures like you. but I still believe there is some elemnt of truth in it regardless of how you want to correct me. I mean, why would i py 9,5k now that I know can get at 8k or less? this is of cos due to the fact that I am not that wealthy that 1.5k means nothing to me.

You also posted your own opinons that everyone in the world likes exclusivity in watches. To me, theres nothing wrong you felt that way but a lot of people doesntreally care that there are tons of POs out that and they still buy. Why, they like the watch. so yours is not a FACT pertaining to all, but its a FACT to some. hence, is it right to bash you on that? NO. its your views and we just learn to accept it.

This is a forum, let's not treat it like a war zone. personally, I still don understand how I could have offended you with my original post. Mayb I should have clicked qk reply rather than quoted what you said and mentioned how I felt about the situation currently in Singapore. Will reframe from accidentally quoting anything you post in future.

Finally, I have to agree to a large extent with Demo that no one knows everything tht is happening. even if you follow every PAM thingy, and document everything, I wont be surprised if a mere 1% escapes you.

anyway peace out.

[exxondus]

Told my friends PAM is a fashion watch... looks like I am right pricing falling due 2 no demand... kekekeke

PAM quality also cannot beat ROLEX or PTAEK... NO WAY!

guys, don start a war here Theres lots of useful info in this thread if you really are interested.

we brand followrs love our brand a lot so such statements is really not wanted. you can feel this way but maybe be a bit tactful cos here already a bit like a war zone liao

but honestly, demand is still there for PAM if you go ask the ADs.

[Fred_Tan]

Careful out there

There are many traders here who recycle pre-owned watch and make it into LNIB & even BNIB...

If u dun believe me, just pay e 2 polishing shops a visit on ur off-days or Sat esp around 2pm & see who visit there with all e watches to polish...

Such traders have been caught by many members in P.com in Spore who have same case & bezel to compare.

When u see sharp corners that are too sharp & even rounded corners when it's not suppose to be....u know what u r in for....

These traders are getting good references from e very group ppl who polish the watches a swell as their trolls & moles...
Some of em even visit cybercafes to create logins in forum with different IPs to post fake inflated WTS price & fake demand by posting fake WTBs.

And, you call these ppl good traders...I know who they are as they have been banned in many forums.
Sadly, some are still not caught as it's very hard to prove their deeds.

I stand proud to say, I never sell watches that mis-claim a condition.
All my watches works fine.
I scrutize my items to the best of my ability which is not much.
I can put a case & bezel next to my watch with a 100x high powered loupe and compare the polished & brushed grain by grain.
My photos speak for myself.

These traders are still in business & u kind of guessed who they are when everything from them BNIB or LNIB.
U hardly see Pre-owned sale offer from them.

A very low profile but well known collector here was accidentally offered a BNIB watch by one of these trader here that's actually a pre-owned watch that he sold to a fren who later sold to this trader...it has e same miilesimation, LOL

Now, not all traders are bad.
Not all traders with good references are good.

Good traders dun even need to post to sale.
His watches are already sold even b4 they arrive.

My point here is how do u judge the pricing here from traders like these?
I exclude all these ppl from my pricing.
I visit em for e fun of knowing what these ppl have.

I offer every1 here my free service to come along w u if u need to buy from any grey-trader here...I can help u snuffed out who these traders are...
I am here to share...

[exxondus]

There are many traders here who recycle pre-owned watch and make it into LNIB & even BNIB...

If u dun believe me, just pay e 2 polishing shops a visit on ur off-days or Sat esp around 2pm & see who visit there with all e watches to polish...

Such traders have been caught by many members in P.com in Spore who have same case & bezel to compare.

When u see sharp corners that are too sharp & even rounded corners when it's not suppose to be....u know what u r in for....

These traders are getting good references from e very group ppl who polish the watches a swell as their trolls & moles...
Some of em even visit cybercafes to create logins in forum with different IPs to post fake inflated WTS price & fake demand by posting fake WTBs.

And, you call these ppl good traders...I know who they are as they have been banned in many forums.
Sadly, some are still not caught as it's very hard to prove their deeds.

I stand proud to say, I never sell watches that mis-claim a condition.
All my watches works fine.
I scrutize my items to the best of my ability which is not much.
I can put a case & bezel next to my watch with a 100x high powered loupe and compare the polished & brushed grain by grain.
My photos speak for myself.

These traders are still in business & u kind of guessed who they are when everything from them BNIB or LNIB.
U hardly see Pre-owned sale offer from them.

A very low profile but well known collector here was accidentally offered a BNIB watch by one of these trader here that's actually a pre-owned watch that he sold to a fren who later sold to this trader...it has e same miilesimation, LOL

Now, not all traders are bad.
Not all traders with good references are good.

Good traders dun even need to post to sale.
His watches are already sold even b4 they arrive.

My point here is how do u judge the pricing here from traders like these?
I exclude all these ppl from my pricing.
I visit em for e fun of knowing what these ppl have.

I offer every1 here my free service to come along w u if u need to buy from any grey-trader here...I can help u snuffed out who these traders are...
I am here to share...

This I agree, cos got a trader told me can always polish and post its LNIB and unworn after that and sell much higher

but for the inexperienced, its really hard to tell when a watch had been repolished. Most buyers only look at price and honestly, you cant blame them for doing so. Its been mentioned that unless you know the grey dealer very well, its better to buy from ADs whom will not shortchange you in such a way.


Is it true that after 1 polish, the effect is prettry obvious? I mean, would it really take off a lot of the metal and cause a bit of thining, resulting in the rounding corners that you mentioned

[Fred_Tan]

Stop buying Panerai

Told my friends PAM is a fashion watch... looks like I am right pricing falling due 2 no demand... kekekeke

PAM quality also cannot beat ROLEX or PTAEK... NO WAY!

You are right.
Who would be stupid enough to pay SGD35k for a PAM217 2 years ago that comes with a SGD150 ETA6497/2 mvmt?

It's a fashion fad that even Rolex is trying to follow with 43mm DSSD.

Patek is the best.
Their watch has the best quality even when u see many more complaints bout malfunctions & very slow service in many forum like PuristSPro.
They hand-made everything.
Last watch company to be family owned.

AP oso very good.
JLC oso good.
IWC very good.
Glashutte very very good.
Lange even better.
Hublot very very good.
Grand Seiko very very very good.
Rolex is da BEST!

PAM very bad.
No advertisement in any major dailies worldwide.
Uncle & aunties dun even know that it is not a SGD100 watch.
U wear PAM, ppl think u poor & no standard as the Beng & Seng only know Rolex.
Exhorbitant pricing.
Thanks to bad flippers like me who caused it.
Pawnshop dun eat some more.
I think pawnshop will laugh at me till his fake teeth drops out if I bring in my 217 & tell him I bought it for SGD9k 2yrs ago and now it's at least 21k.

PAM is a fashion fad which will fade next year.
Pls dun buy any PAM.
I will be happi if this happen when every1 shun PAM.
At least I can buy PAMs on e cheap then.
I wan a 21, 203 & 267 for less than 20k in total...

[ohlins]

That I feel is really uncalled for. You can correct them and share your experience if you wish, but to call people arrogant and giving baseless facts, barking at wrong tree, is really a bit too attacking.

i am not trying to defend Fred.... but in this thread, he did not use the word "arrogant" against any member....