Resale Value - Panerai

[Paneraii]

golanheights! you have posted a good post !!

[chase de bull]

Just like most have said, go in with your heart, if you like it so much, bring it home and give yourself a treat.

In regards to the value of the PAM233, I guess it's pretty safe cos afterall, it's a watch with an 8-day complication. Watches with complications tend to hold their value past the $10k mark.

However, taking a simple regression analysis for the various models of collectible watches vs their value, you might be able to spot your best bet. A Omega Flightmaster 910 is more sought after than a 911, a Omega Ploprof with a nicely aged Mk 1 dial (almost impossible to find) can fetch thousands of dollars more than a Mk 2/Mk 3. The same applies to a Mark 1 orange hand Rolex Explorer II 1655 with straight seconds hand, it'll cost much much more than the later series. Though the watches I've mentioned are more high profile collectible watches, I borrow the same theory to be applied to PAMs: Neo vintage T dials have better resale than L dials, True Vintage and Pre-A PAMs are out of reach for most, 'A' series are more expensive than any later series. There are different dial variations to the PAM233, and that's what makes it interesting to me, and my personal view is that if I were to get a PAM233, I'll go for the 'I' series with Mk1 dial (hopefully without any reliability issues)... Although I do admit that it's all a guessing game, it makes watch collecting fun for me.

So, get a PAM233 regardless, cos being the first of the first in-house complication of Panerai, I think it's a very safe bet.

My 2 cents

nice one

[5218-201/A]

Personally, in the past, I thought the depreciation was all based on the model, some models depreciated very little while others fell like a stone but recently looking at the prices in the market I have to say I really want to stick with the Pre V's, the Pre A's and maybe the A's.

Look at the 26k, they were being sold for 11 to 12k USD for a year or so then they dropped to 10k USD and now they can be easily had for under 9500 USD and I just saw one advertised for less than 9k USD.

Look at the Fiddy, the limited issue 1950 127 which would sell for 18 to 22K USD all day long but one was just sold on Paneristi for 9500 Euro (less than 12K USD) but this one did not have papers or a box. That is a lot of cash for losing boxes and papers.

Same with the 317, now of all the newer models I thought this was one that would not drop, the entire watch is DLC'ed and no others in the future will be made, Panerai has already said it and the going rate for the 317 has always been between 30 and 33k USD but just the other day there was one for sale for 25K.

I'll stick to the Pre V's and Pre A's and my 9B as my daily beater.

[Paneraii]

I think it is less insane bah.

[KuchingKu]

Personally, in the past, I thought the depreciation was all based on the model, some models depreciated very little while others fell like a stone but recently looking at the prices in the market I have to say I really want to stick with the Pre V's, the Pre A's and maybe the A's.

Look at the 26k, they were being sold for 11 to 12k USD for a year or so then they dropped to 10k USD and now they can be easily had for under 9500 USD and I just saw one advertised for less than 9k USD.

Look at the Fiddy, the limited issue 1950 127 which would sell for 18 to 22K USD all day long but one was just sold on Paneristi for 9500 Euro (less than 12K USD) but this one did not have papers or a box. That is a lot of cash for losing boxes and papers.

Same with the 317, now of all the newer models I thought this was one that would not drop, the entire watch is DLC'ed and no others in the future will be made, Panerai has already said it and the going rate for the 317 has always been between 30 and 33k USD but just the other day there was one for sale for 25K.

I'll stick to the Pre V's and Pre A's and my 9B as my daily beater.

My take on this situation is that for recent models (SE or popular and fewer pieces), prices will not hold after initiate high (like Milguess, GMT2C, DSSD). This could be because the market now has more watch hoggers/keeper/flippers/dealers holding these pieces than real collectors/users/wearers.

Where in the past, watches are bought to be worn, number of pieces BNIB to be resold many years down the road are few, thus making these watches rare. For recent SE (take for eg the new 26).....1000 pcs made.....300 pcs are worn while 700 pcs are kept BNIB and waiting for prices to raise....with such ready 'supply', how could price go up?
Same for 127, 217 and the coming up 339 etc.

PreV, PreA and vintage rolexes have trangress out of this cycle. Thus, I have no inclination to touch any model SE, esp. those with premier cos this premier will never be recovered.....unless of course the watch is so damn beautiful on the wrist for wearing. Thus, no point buying BNIB watch for investment, 99.9% lose money.

[ocwatching]

great discussions guys...

any input on the 190? This one seem to be a bit of an odd duck in the PAM world interms of 2ndary markets...

some go over $10kusd and others are less than $9Kusd (ones on ebay go for high $8kusd)...

this watch is just so hard to understand..though it is a great piece and I WANT one

[KuchingKu]

any input on the 190? This one seem to be a bit of an odd duck in the PAM world interms of 2ndary markets...

some go over $10kusd and others are less than $9Kusd (ones on ebay go for high $8kusd)...

this watch is just so hard to understand..though it is a great piece and I WANT one

This one has taken on a life of its own. Prices are farily stable as compared to others. A little like an SE for it's limited run of 2050 pieces with a one-off movement. You could say the 292J (Pig) is like a 190 DNA but I think 190 has better DNA. So if the 292J holds at S$17K, then the 190 holding at S$12 to 13K is very reasonable.

Though he 292J has only 1000 pcs (Or say 26K also 1000 pcs), I believe there are fewer BN/LN 190 in the market than 292J or 26K. This goes back to my previous theory that the more current SE are mostly kept and not worn while the older Pams are mostly worn. That makes the BN/LN pcs of 190/127 more rare than BN/LN pcs of 292J/26K/28L etc. In fact, I have noticed this phenomenon starting near the introduction of 249/232 period.
I want one too.

[wiliercento]

190

This one has taken on a life of its own. Prices are farily stable as compared to others. A little like an SE for it's limited run of 2050 pieces with a one-off movement. You could say the 292J (Pig) is like a 190 DNA but I think 190 has better DNA. So if the 292J holds at S$17K, then the 190 holding at S$12 to 13K is very reasonable.

Though he 292J has only 1000 pcs (Or say 26K also 1000 pcs), I believe there are fewer BN/LN 190 in the market than 292J or 26K. This goes back to my previous theory that the more current SE are mostly kept and not worn while the older Pams are mostly worn. That makes the BN/LN pcs of 190/127 more rare than BN/LN pcs of 292J/26K/28L etc. In fact, I have noticed this phenomenon starting near the introduction of 249/232 period.
I want one too.

well said bro!

[KuchingKu]

In order for things to change.....some owners of recent SE models need to start using their watches. Then, the BN price, LN prices and used prices will move. BN will hold or go up, LN will come down a little and used will move further down and stay at a point. However, not many who own these SEs (if their main idea is to flip or about value instead of enjoy wearing it) want to do that so the situation will remain the same. Many 'holders' of BN/LN pieces of recent SE and thus the prices of all the BN/LN prices will not move up or down. So rather than I lose you gain, it would tuen out as equal misery.

Thus, don't think of buying SE and making money...highly unlikely, unless one gets them at retail (eg 339, 360 etc). Then there is one chance of flipping it for a profit. The second person who buys it at the premier price....

For me, I like to buy used and use them.....then when I want a change of watch, sell them to the market at market used prices. Lose a little but not as much as using a new piece and sell off aas used. Like car.
Main thing is I get to wear and enjoy the watch. Don't believe in buying watch to keep and wait for price to go up. 9.5 out of 10 times, it doesn't happen.

[tsetse]

I think resale value is one thing, whether you can sell the watch also is another. Brand and Model is very impt. I have some watches where the quality and finishing is pretty good in my opinion but if I were to try to sell it, I wouldnt even have any offers, even if there were, it would be ridiculous.

Yes, even Panerai and Rolex watches would lose some value, some may make money, some may not, most imptly, when U need to sell ur watches fast either for cash or to fund another watch purchase, U can do so reasonably quickly, some brands may not be able to move so fast.

Of cos I maybe biased in my views since I'm a PAM fan, but then I think its rather true though.

But most imptly, must buy the watch U like, study the brand and the various models and look at the budget you prepared, don just jump into it then discover, eh got another model U like, etc. I was like this, I got the 104 cos one of the more affordable models, and it was available to me, then finally discovered and learned orh...got normal case and 1950s case, got big difference, so buy/sell, waste money and time, etc then finally got what I wanted. I'm not saying the 104 is not good, but just that I prefer the 1950s case design, thats all. So spend some time, surf the net, read the forums for more info, understand what you already want and then go and buy the watch U have fallen in love with.

[tsetse]

I have never owned a Panerai but have looked at a 233 recently. My concern is long term resale - will they hold the value that my Rolexes always have?

To add on, if you really want the 233, get it on the gray market, the price is much better and if you were to flip it later, the loses would be minimised greatly. I have done some studies of the pricing between Local AD and the gray market dealers.

Some of our forummers here can bring in the 233 at very attractive prices, Pamdino is one of them, you might wanna PM him.

You have to compare, for eg. U can go check out the pricing for the model you like, then compare the pricing after discount for both AD and Gray Market Dealers. But if you wan fast fast and ready stock then be prepared to pay a slightly more premium for the same watch.

[KuchingKu]

I think resale value is one thing, whether you can sell the watch also is another. Brand and Model is very impt. I have some watches where the quality and finishing is pretty good in my opinion but if I were to try to sell it, I wouldnt even have any offers, even if there were, it would be ridiculous.

Yes, even Panerai and Rolex watches would lose some value, some may make money, some may not, most imptly, when U need to sell ur watches fast either for cash or to fund another watch purchase, U can do so reasonably quickly, some brands may not be able to move so fast.

Of cos I maybe biased in my views since I'm a PAM fan, but then I think its rather true though.

But most imptly, must buy the watch U like, study the brand and the various models and look at the budget you prepared, don just jump into it then discover, eh got another model U like, etc. I was like this, I got the 104 cos one of the more affordable models, and it was available to me, then finally discovered and learned orh...got normal case and 1950s case, got big difference, so buy/sell, waste money and time, etc then finally got what I wanted. I'm not saying the 104 is not good, but just that I prefer the 1950s case design, thats all. So spend some time, surf the net, read the forums for more info, understand what you already want and then go and buy the watch U have fallen in love with.

Agree. Some Pams and some rolex tend to hold value better than other brands. I had the 'joy' of selling 2 BR and 1 Chopard and it was really tough, not to say a lose of 50% is considered lucky.

Pam lovers will go thru the whole stage of going from starters, to in-house, to SE, to vintage back to in-house, to SE etc. So it's good to lose much when you change watch often.

[Seventh Son]

I lost about 50% on some designer watches last time. Heart pain!! Somemore damn freaking hard to sell. Rolex and Pams are pretty safe.

[amitabh]

Has Panerai resale value tanked?

I was just scouting around for watches ,and wanted to trade my PAM (will not state the series, as some bros who own it would not like that). However I was unable to get a fair value for the same . ultimately i was able to trade ...but at a big markdown .

what do you think ..has PAM bubble finally burst? Does this brand command any more premium?

thoughts ...experience ..pl. share if ok to put your hard earned money on this ?

[amitabh]

Some more thoughts ....the brand has too many variations under the so called "limited eidtions" ..this will never ensure high value for the watch even in the near future as the watch is never unique