Sinn : purchase locally through authorized dealer/gray dealer/online

[triton]

i would like to share my thoughts on which options to purchase sinn watch as i have received several pms/sms/phone calls.

generally there are 3 ways to purchase a sinn watch

1. local authorized dealer
2. online dealer
3. gray dealer

local authorized dealer

buyer can have a actual feel of the watch, place it on wrist to decide if the watch smiles @ you
can buy immediately
price maybe slightly higher compared to online dealer/gray dealer *factoring VAT, exchange rate*
buyer of watch can go to local authorized dealer if there is any issue with the watch

online dealer

if buyer can find a seller willing to ship to singapore.
price may be lower compared to local authorized dealer considering the tax difference and exchange rate. but don't forget about the 7% GST that will be impose on the watch coming into singapore.
buyer usually is left on your own when there is issues with the watch. buyer can approach local authorized dealer for assistance who may impose handling fees.

gray dealer

buyer have to place order with gray dealer if gray dealer has no stock.
price may be lower compared to local authorized dealer and online dealer. however gray dealer will be likely to claim the VAT and not have to pay GST.
buyer is left on your own when there is issues with the watch unless there is prior agreement that seller has with local authorized dealer not to impose handling fee.

my views

if the model purchase is not one with argon gas indicator, then likely able to get it serviced locally with a watch technician as it is base ETA in most cases. however, if the model purchased is one with argon gas indicator, it has to go sinn factory. waiting time is about 6 months if go through local authorized dealer. however, i understand that argon gas indicator watch can be serviced locally. not sure when though.

if watch is purchased from local authorized dealer, if there is any assistance required by buyer for the watch, the authorized dealer is obliged to assist you. however, if purchased from gray dealer or online dealer, there is a possibility that they charge you a handling fee (business perspective).

for sinn watches especially those with argon gas indicator, it has to be serviced sooner or later. so buyers have to take note. i would buy from authorized dealer because they will have to handle it for me.

if you buy from online or gray dealer, you likely have to do it on your own if you encounter issues with the watch. send the watch there and bear the risk being lost along the way. though there is always insurance to cover, you will have to handle it everything on your own. however, through local authorized dealer, they bear the risk, not you.

also if you buy it from local AD, it is likely they will 'cover' the handling fees for buyer, whereas if the watch is bought outside local AD, local AD can charge customer for handling fees.

personally, if the price savings is not more than 300, i will go and purchase from local authorized dealer. this is because, it is a hassle free if i need to service the watch. already paid them upfront for subsequent service that is needed. generally, the discount for a sinn watch varies from 20-30% depending on models. this will give buyers some information to work on the purchase of a sinn watch.

hope this helps.

[beatific]

Another thing to consider - the GST charged for items shipped from overseas. Legit ADs are usually not willing to under declare the value.

[Oceanklassik]

I thought it is rather obvious that the Hour Glass (THG) is the only AD for Sinn watches in Singapore? Or am I obsolete?? I read recently that the sole agent in Singapore for Seiko watches, which is Thong Sia, didn't want to honour some of the JDM models. I'm not too sure if Thong Sia covers JDM Seiko models but I thought since they are the sole agent, they should.

Back to THG-Sinn. Will THG Singapore honour fully what the Sinn factory will want them to honour if a Sinn watch is not bought from them? What about pricing, i.e. buying a Sinn watch from THG vs another source, especially if the price is about the same? For example, if the price of a particular Sinn watch costs $2K from THG and the other source costs $1.9K, which party is likely to get the deal?

[triton]

the issue is not about honouring the international warranty. it is when a buyer purchase a sinn watch not from local AD and when the watch needs servicing or have issues with the watch and they approach the local AD for assistance.

the local AD can charge a handling fee but buyer does not feel it is appropriate to be charge this fee.

as mentioned early, THG is a local AD, unless they are now a service centre for sinn which i cannot confirm as of now. then if they are a service centre and they refuse to service the watch, i agree with you that they need to be taken to task. however, as a AD, they can choose charge a handling fee for watches not bought from them.

As in all international waranty, if the local agent refuses to honour the agreement, for the interest of all concerned, then the head office must be informed immediately to notify them of this discrepency.Let's face it, to be perfectly fair, we are dealing with an internationally renowned item and brand. I personally trust that an intrnational waranty means just like it says.

As for the price, you will have to decide what is attractive. Like I mention, no two apples are exactly alike.

[Oceanklassik]

Maybe it's time to drop by an AD to seek some information on this. So, who wants to join me later

[triton]

give me a sms on the time.

[jazziceman]

hmm..

I have been looking to get a Sinn U1 SDR for some time and sad to say, the so call grey dealer or online (BNIB) price ain't really attractive. The price is only between $150 - $200 off from what I can get from retail - max $300+.

If this amount could buy me assurance that THG will service within warranty at no cost; why not right?

[Oceanklassik]

That's what I was thinking. I often see/hear people talking about getting cheaper prices from overseas, local PIs, etc. True enough, maybe yes, only if the amount is substantial. If not, I do not see much of the savings actually. I'd recently sought help from a friend to buy a handbag as he was travelling then. Having checked the price of the same item locally at the boutiques, it was strictly priced at $xxx. My friend got it for me at close to $400 lesser. Quite substantial (at least for me).

[puateikor]

Hi, I think need to hv a specific model for comparision.
Any idea how much does the U1 costs @ THG after discount?
Anyone could shed some light, so we could see how much
one actually saved by buying from PIs?
Anybody?

[triton]

different buyers will have different buying price. so the price can vary as such savings will differ.

also, you are using U1 as a comparison where there is no argon gas, and servicing can be done locally. if it is a model with argon gas, then it has to be sent back to germany.

it is also important to note that different people view the amount of savings differently. also this amount of savings has to be in relation of the after sales support that i am getting. so let me give a scenario. if the savings is 200, it is not substantial enough. why?

first the watch with argon gas model was not bought from a local AD which is THG. if i have an issue with the watch, i bring the watch to them, they may impose a service/handling fee. it is important to note that THG is authorized dealer and not a servicing agent/centre. as such they can even reject to assist me with my watch. if they dont assist me, they are within their own rights. if they assist me, they are hoping that i would buy watch from them in future. this is from commercial perspective.

however, i know for 100% that if i buy from local AD and i have any issue with the watch, they will assist me without any service or handling fee. why? i can only speculate that the amount i paid for the watch already covers such instances.

however, for another buyer, the 200 savings is worth it not to purchase from local AD. the buyer's decision is not wrong either. the buyer may have the intention to sell the watch before the watch needs to be serviced. furthermore, the buyer is thinking that the savings can cover any potential 'depreciation' of the watch.

as most people who know me, the watches i buy is mainly for keeps. so i prefer to buy from local AD because when i need to service my sinn watch, i wont incur any handling/service fees.

different buyers have different perspective. the purpose of this thread is not to tell potential buyers to either go local AD or PI or online or direct purchase. it is to inform potential buyers the pros and cons. it is to provide potential buyers with more information so that they can make a decision for themselves which suit their needs.

[Oceanklassik]

I think at the end of the day, there are no strict rules as to whether an AD will/not accept the watch. The AD may not be bounded to provide such services. It's a risk that one has to take. As for pricing, different customers will be given different 'treatment' by the ADs and this is also dependent on timing and the source (how the watches were obtained). I can walk into Hour Glass to resize the bracelet of my Seiko watch free of charge but I will have to pay for the same service at a watch shop in the heartlands. Got it

[triton]

i have already addressed your point which you may have failed to read those words.

i have already indicated the words in bold that THG is an authorized dealer and not a servicing centre/agent. therefore, THG may want to impose a handling fee. if THG is a servicing centre, it would not be appropriate for them to impose a service/handling fee.

if the watch is indeed faulty, then it will be the decision of Sinn factory to honour the warranty not THG. Do remember that THG is an authorized dealer which i stressed again.

why i indicate service/handling fee and i also mentioned that THG may impose ? i have used such words because it is THG discretion, and not Sinn factory.

do you know how THG handles those sinn watches that has issues that is brought to them? if my facts are not correct, then i am sure you know the facts better than i do. if in this case, why not shed light on this. i believe many forum members and those reading will like to know more.

also i have indicated that it is to provide more information for buyers to decide which again you may have failed to read and hence i underlined it for attention.

i have also have the words underlined again to draw your attention to which is that 200 is not substantial enough for me but for others it is worth it. also do read my signature.

different buyers will have different buying price. so the price can vary as such savings will differ.

also, you are using U1 as a comparison where there is no argon gas, and servicing can be done locally. if it is a model with argon gas, then it has to be sent back to germany.

it is also important to note that different people view the amount of savings differently. also this amount of savings has to be in relation of the after sales support that i am getting. so let me give a scenario. if the savings is 200, it is not substantial enough. why?

first the watch with argon gas model was not bought from a local AD which is THG. if i have an issue with the watch, i bring the watch to them, they may impose a service/handling fee. it is important to note that THG is authorized dealer and not a servicing agent/centre. as such they can even reject to assist me with my watch. if they dont assist me, they are within their own rights. if they assist me, they are hoping that i would buy watch from them in future. this is from commercial perspective.

however, i know for 100% that if i buy from local AD and i have any issue with the watch, they will assist me without any service or handling fee. why? i can only speculate that the amount i paid for the watch already covers such instances.

however, for another buyer, the 200 savings is worth it not to purchase from local AD. the buyer's decision is not wrong either. the buyer may have the intention to sell the watch before the watch needs to be serviced. furthermore, the buyer is thinking that the savings can cover any potential 'depreciation' of the watch.

as most people who know me, the watches i buy is mainly for keeps. so i prefer to buy from local AD because when i need to service my sinn watch, i wont incur any handling/service fees.

different buyers have different perspective. the purpose of this thread is not to tell potential buyers to either go local AD or PI or online or direct purchase. it is to inform potential buyers the pros and cons. it is to provide potential buyers with more information so that they can make a decision for themselves which suit their needs.

Not quite sure what you mean by a handling fee or for that matter if you have all your facts right.

As far I as I know a waranty means that I get to service my watch free of cost within that stipulated period. Like I mentioned beforeif the AD in S'pore or for that matter anywhere else in the world decides otherwise, I am very sure the SINN head office in Germany would very much want to know why.

I believe SINN to be an established and renowned brand that will always honour its waranty.

[jazziceman]

Whether it is $200 or more discount is substantial savings or not, it is a very personal matter for one to decide. So unless one is commenting for the local AD, it is still a very personal opinion.

yes, which is why I am making a personal comment and my own opinion.

[terrenceterrence]

Never yet have to send a SINN watch for service before the waranty period is over. Perhaps you would like to share your own personal experience so that we dont end up with so much speculation on what they will or will not do. Again I stress unless one is commenting on behalf for the local AD, what we know is just simply just that speculation.

SINN does not have a service centre in singapore and THG is only an AUTHORISED DEALER. Thus they would ONLY SERVICE watches under warranty that is BOUGHT FROM THG DIRECTLY.

Just like buying PI cars. Local ADs would only service cars that are officially brought in by them and not PI cars.

I am one person who bought a 857s directly from Frankfurt and due to a slight defect in the PVD coating of one particular batch in the production line, the coating on my watch started to fade around the caseback. Also the lume pip on the bezel dropped off.


Thinking that it was still under warranty, I sent it to THG directly to have them sent it back to Germany for investigation and hopefully rectification. THG wanted to charge me the courier expenses + other misc charges.

So lazy to type about the details of the incidents, so i am attaching my correspondence to SINN and their reply.

[I]Dear Sir/Madam

I've bought my 857s (serial no. 857.1177) directly from your Frankfurt factory on 19th November in Singapore. So far it gave me nothing but headache and disappointment in both the build quality and level of customer service from both Sinn and The Hour Glass (THG), Singapore.

First of all the lume pip on the bezel dropped off early February and I sent it to The Hour Glass outlet in Lucky Plaza, Singapore, thinking that they are the authorised dealer and service centre for Sinn in Southeast Asia.

I was quoted SGD 50 repair and replacement charge (Repair No. 811-10-0023) to have the lume pip glued back to the bezel. The reasoning was that it was an "external defect" and is not covered by the warranty agreement. I was puzzled and I sent an e-mail and a carbon copy on 7th March 2010 to both Sinn's and THG's customer service to enquire about this matter. To my surprise both parties refused/ignored my e-mail and did not even bother to send me a reply.

On 17th March 2010, I had the opportunity to visit Frankfurt again and purchased a U1 SDR. I guess i still have some semblance of confidence in Sinn and it's product to get a second watch.

I went to the customer service desk to enquire if they received my e-mail and if the defect is really not covered in the warranty. The gentleman behind the desk is answered that the Customer Service Manager was on vacation and might have been unable to reply my e-mail. Also he said that Sinn would gladly replace my bezel free of charge if i brought it in directly. Unfortunately my watch was still with THG in Singapore and I explained that they want to charge me SGD 50 to replace the lume pip. He was very "diplomatic" and replied that they he is unsure about THG's service policy and can't reply on their behalf but the bezel is definitely covered under the watch's warranty.

I am puzzled, does THG and Sinn have different set of warranty policies in the Sinn watches that they sell? Are there 2 different prints of warranty for both watches sold in Germany and Singapore? How come I get 2 different answer to the warranty agreement.

I could understand that THG would like to "earn" some money from watches not sold by them and I would be fine with it if they are upfront with me. But this is clearly a blatant misleading of your customers here in Singapore.

Since I did not receive any answer from both Sinn and THG, I have no choice but to pay to get back my watch.

I thought that would be the end of my problem with my 857s, but I was dead wrong. Two months ago I noticed the PVD coating around the caseback is fading and slowly the fading patch grew. Enclosed are photos and links to the photos of my watch for better illustration of the problem.

http://sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=43112

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=0#msg_5162648

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=420198

Again, I have no choice to send it to THG. They said they will have to send it back to Frankfurt for investigation. I consented and left my watch with THG (repair no. 805-10-0491). A week later, I received a phone call from THG saying that there would be charges to the watch and I shall be quoted the amount once everything is finalised.

I was incensed! The watch is still very much under warranty and I could not fathom why should I pay for a manufacturing defect! They told me this is due to wear and tear and is not covered by the warranty again!! Fading PVD under 6 months of ownership?! This is preposterous!! Even in the case of a car, the paint job is covered in the warranty!

Luckily my wife would be heading to Frankfurt on 2nd August and she would be dropping in your company with my watch for evaluation. I seriously do not trust THG in handling this matter and I have chosen to take back my watch and dealing with you directly.

Both THG and Sinn's service standard is very badly viewed upon over here in Singapore. You can read all about it in this local watch forum link:

http://sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=41938

I am not the only person who have not received any replies from both you and THG with regards to servicing of our watches. You just need to read the title of the forum thread to understand the level of our frustration. Again I am not the only person who have problems with your current build quality. You just need to go to some forums like watchuseek.com and etc to read about the reviews.

I still believe in your company to buy 2 watches from you and I hope you would give me a reasonable answer to my problems.

Regards[/I]


Below is their response.

Dear xxx,
thank you for your e-mail.

You buy the 857 s directly from Sinn Factory Frankfurt, if there is a problem with the watch there is covvered under warranty the Sinn customer service check it and repair it under warranty. If you contact an Sinn- dirtributon partner in your county the situation is changed. The distributor can repair your watch for a charge if he repair the watch by himself. The other way is that he handle the procedure of sending the watch to germany for you. It can be that the ditributor charge you for that procedure.
To give you a reliable information about the PVD coating of your Sinn-watch we need to have a look at it. For this purpose you are certainly welcome
to send your watch to us. For sending it I would recommend to insure it sufficiently.

Sinn Spezialuhren GmbH
Attn. Watch Repairs
Im Füldchen 5-7
D-60489 Frankfurt
Germany

Please add a note describing in detail the work and requirements that you want performed.
Also include your mailing address, phone number and e-mail address so that we can
contact you when needed.
Please ship the watch with lots of padding to protect the watch from damage during shipment.
Also we recommend that you use an insured, traceable method, and be sure to complete the
correct Customs forms prior to shipment. You must indicate on all documents that the watch
is being returned for repair.
Kind Regards
Joachim Simon
Customer Service

[feilong108]

Thanks for the information Bro Terence