Update on the finding of my omega speedmaster mark 2

[Darkangel]

I believe that both Paul and Jamy will settle it themselves privately as they have both voiced their story here. We shall not continue the discussion.

Thread will be closed.

[JAMYLIM]

Update on the finding of my omega speedmaster mark 2

Dear:Folks,

Greetings to all.This is an update of the watch repairer analysis of my Omega Mark 2 I bought from Paul Lim recently. I would like to thank those of you who have been following up on my last forum on this subject - your input/contribution.
After the last conclusion - Paul asked me to go ahead to send the watch to any watch repairer although I did asked for his suggestion since I am not sure who to send to.
I managed to get a few repairer from the web and decided to send it to BonField.
I initially wanted JW but it is close today. Swatch Group maybe too ex although I would have felt more comfortable with them. Paul has told me that the max he is willing to pay is S$300 but I told him to leave that open as I told him that in the event if the problem which causes the watch to go fast is due to the watch parts condition then its not fair that I should be made to bear the cost to get it right. I attended an official work meeting in town this morning and so I took the opportunity to make a quick detour to this repairer on my way back to my office. The watch specialist Mr.Eric Ong took the watch and did a visual check (without opening it) plus did some test and gave his first opinion:
1) He said it is heavily magnetise
2) Somebody tried to do a hand-painting on the hands which was visible when I did a check myself using my own magnifying scope.
3) He also said the beat wasnt good.

He offered to open it up at S$40 to have a closer look at the movement and all and this is his opinion:

1) He said the "pusher" is not the "original" while it is an Omega pusher but not for the watch of this model as he went on to show me the size of both pusher is slightly different size.
2) He said some parts in the movement is again not the original and have been taken from here and there to put them together...
3) There were slight rust.

I told Eric that as a laymen I dont go all out to look at the watch into such details because he is approaching the subject as a profession cos if everyone of us were to start looking into every finer details then I guess none of us will be buying any second hand watches especially vintage.
I also asked him whether is it possible that I magnetise it within that short period between taking over the watch the last evening till 11plus the next morning when I first notice the problem and he said it is not possible unless I am working in an industry with very strong magnetic field equipment around me.

I then asked him the cost for the repair and he quoted me about S$1200 which I tried to negotiate but without success. I then left since it is that costly and I inform Paul about it by sms.

I gave him the choice to get a 2nd opinion since I believe independent repairer will definately want to make a decent profit out of it so in a way Im taking it with a pinch of salt...

I dont think that its fair that I am made to accept the watch of such condition especially when I notify Paul in the instance I notice the problem.

I am at a dead end of what to do next as I dont wish to get into another tussle with Paul over this which is mentally draining. I know he doesnt want to take back the watch and probably feel that I must accept it.

Your opinion appreciated.

Thanks..

[dominique_kwok]

Dear Jamy,

I can truly understand what you are going through, the dilemma...

However, all I can say is that this whole situation can only be resolved if 1) Paul is ok with taking the watch back or 2) You are magnanimous enough to live with the issue and just wear the watch as it is.

Why do I say that?

Well if you look through my previous posts, you will see that I recently purchases a 232 that was not mounted on any strap.

It was only upon returning home and looking at the watch under normal lighting did I discover a scratch on the crystal. When I was checking the watch with the seller in Starbucks, the lighting there deceived my eyes. My discovery of the scratch was no more than 30mins after I left Starbucks and reached home.

The seller offered to polish off the scratch which he also said he had no knowledge of. Interestingly, the watch was described as lnib in the posting. To add on to my woes, the watch would stop working after running for about 10hours which was an obvious indication of a flaw in its mechanism.

I informed the seller and he asked me to get it fixed and we agreed to do so at Top Hour. Uncle Lim was able to solve the mechanism problem and the seller bore the full cost. However, Uncle Lim could not do anything about the scratch. Unlce Lim said the only way to fix the scratch was to get the crystal replaced.

Despite the seller meeting up with me on a Sunday to polish off the scratch using polywatch, all attempts failed. The seller only offered to foot half the replacement fee for the crystal. In the end, he had to leave and he gave me the tube of polywatch to fix the crystal myself.

Well, what can I say? I held on to the watch because I know that once money is handed over, the only way one can get it back is if the person you handed it too is willing to return it. Would I have bought the watch if i had known about the scratch and the faulty mechanism? Honestly, no. And the brothers here will attest that I had been considering a 232 or a 190 for the longest time... About 1.5years to be exact.

Am i disappointed? Yes I am. The seller though a friendly guy, never offered me a full refund though I did nothing to the watch. Till today, I am not sure if he still means it about paying half the cost of the replacement of the crystal. The cost of replacing the crystal would be $600. From my point of view, I don't see why I should be footing $300 for a scratch that was not caused by me. I can only blame myself for not being vigilant enough to scrutinise the watch under all sorts of lighting. Then again, I'm no watch expert...

I have not sold any of my pams which were all purchased via this forum. I have not heard from the seller anymore with him asking me if I have managed to polish off the scratch. Nor have I received the bezel protector which he said he would give me. In this case, do i hound him for it?

Instead of being sad, I went out and purchased gorgeous malio straps and finally mounted it on my 232 so I can at least wear the watch. I see the scratch every time I wear it since my line of work takes me to natural lighting.

Bro Jamy, you cannot control others... The only person you really have control over is yourself, your own emotions. If you want to, you can still find joy in wearing a watch that is not to your expectations. It is all about managing your expectations

I hope you get your happy ending... Or make your own happy ending with your omega speedmaster mark 2...

[JAMYLIM]

Hi bro, thanks for advice n encouragement. Honestly i tried to live with it by thinking(altho its a stupid idea for me to think this way) tat since it is running ahead by approx 45mins i decided to set it behind 45mins and hope tat it will catch up with the correct time but it didnt just catch up with time but outrun the normal time. How am i to wear a watch whose basic purpose is to tell time.? I cant be living with the fear whether is my watch telling the right time and have to look at the clock to confirm the time. I dont care much other details which is why i told the repairer that im not fussy abt the slight rust or the imperfaction he pointed out abt the dial. Seriously if all of us here were to be so particular about every detail and looking closely at the finer detail we would never find a perfect watch. Im able to accept imperfection. If all of us were to put our vintage piece we bought for closer look i think most of it will fail the repairers expectation bcos simply he is looking at it from his profession. But how am i to live with a watch thats running ahead so much unless i wesr it as a jewellry but not to tell time? but of course i am discounting what the repairer tell me as which who wouldnt over exergerate the matter which is why i have never ever visit any watch repairer except for two rolexes i sent to RSC for verification n repair. Im hoping a second opinion n estimate cost will eventually be able to resolve this so we can move on although not entirely happy with what i have to go thru.. Im trying im trying..thks.

[polarinda]

Bonfield ? 1200 is more like a full service price.

Bro, send to JW and get it demagnetised...that's the only place i recommend.

[JAMYLIM]

Bro, thanks for the advise. Bonfield isnt charging for the demagnetise job as he felt that it is more to that and of course it could be over charge. I'm not particular about the hands or the pusher --- all I need is to put it back to running condition as a watch which is suppose to tell time. Anyway I have already told Paul to close the case and keep his max S$300 since he feels is a sale and he is not responsible because he isnt aware of all these and have never open the watch himself but come to think of it as I am sending you this msg now that he did show me a picture of the watch with the back open up showing the movement. For me to accept his S$300 is an insult to my what I believe. I asked him whether how he would have felt if the Longine watch he traded from me have the same problem and I tell him the same crap. For those who intend to buy/sell/trade with him whether now or in future better know that his guarantee comes with terms that he will only said so after the watch is sold and you all will decide whether you want to deal with such a term but as for me I'm staying away from him for good...such is the respect I have for him and I do better without his S$300.

Thanks.

[polarinda]

Jw will settle your timing issues. They are open today. Unlikely to be 1200.

[JAMYLIM]

Bro, thanks...
Too busy --- if only they were open yesterday as I was in that area...thats why I ended in Bonfield for convenient on the way back to Tuas where nobody wants to go to... Maybe I try sometime this week. Thanks

[Rolex01]

Below those comments are just my personal opinion.

I will never buy a watch with non-original replacement parts if I know in advance.

For a Omega Watch with such a high repair cost $1200,00; it doesn't make sense to proceed to repair (percentage to cost of watch)

As what you mentioned below:

2) Somebody tried to do a hand-painting on the hands which was visible when I did a check myself using my own magnifying scope.
3) He also said the beat wasnt good.

He offered to open it up at S$40 to have a closer look at the movement and all and this is his opinion:

1) He said the "pusher" is not the "original" while it is an Omega pusher but not for the watch of this model as he went on to show me the size of both pusher is slightly different size.
2) He said some parts in the movement is again not the original and have been taken from here and there to put them together...
3) There were slight rust.

There are so many not original components involve, if its me, I would cancel the deal and get back my watch and close this episode.
I cannot accept the fact that I have own a high end watch with fake partial component.

My definition very simple...
Genuine watch must be in original condition including all parts and movement.

I cannot say the watch is fake because they use some not original parts but its for you to decide see if you can live with it and knowing the facts that some parts are not original and you paid $x for it.

[chiu_peow]

if you as the buyer did not practise due diligence in having getting the watch verified @ the appropriate service centre, you cannot say it is the seller's fault for not informing you this and that.

tough luck once you part your money.

bottom line is you part good hard earned money for a product that is not the justified selling price.

you need to decide how to move on from here.

the seller can just re-create a new nick and get a new number to sell watch and other items.

[wolfeyes1974]

Below those comments are just my personal opinion.

I will never buy a watch with non-original replacement parts if I know in advance.

For a Omega Watch with such a high repair cost $1200,00; it doesn't make sense to proceed to repair (percentage to cost of watch)

As what you mentioned below:

2) Somebody tried to do a hand-painting on the hands which was visible when I did a check myself using my own magnifying scope.
3) He also said the beat wasnt good.

He offered to open it up at S$40 to have a closer look at the movement and all and this is his opinion:

1) He said the "pusher" is not the "original" while it is an Omega pusher but not for the watch of this model as he went on to show me the size of both pusher is slightly different size.
2) He said some parts in the movement is again not the original and have been taken from here and there to put them together...
3) There were slight rust.

There are so many not original components involve, if its me, I would cancel the deal and get back my watch and close this episode.
I cannot accept the fact that I have own a high end watch with fake partial component.

My definition very simple...
Genuine watch must be in original condition including all parts and movement.

I cannot say the watch is fake because they use some not original parts but its for you to decide see if you can live with it and knowing the facts that some parts are not original and you paid $x for it.

I suspect Paul is not the first and only owner of this watch. As such, he may/may not know that certain parts are not original.

To me it's simple. Paul has to take back the watch and give a full refund. As long as some of the parts are not original/genuine (the pusher that's most obvious in this case without opening the case). We suspected the watch was magnetized and apparently that's just a small problem. Magnetized or not is irrelevant here now.

Eric has been in this field for a long time doing restoration. I feel that the watch doesn't need another opinion. If you want another opinion, you can swing by Lucky Plaza level 3 (Singapore Horological Restoration Centre) or JW or Heirloom at 20 Upper Circular Road (Heirloom specializes in selling vintages).

I suggest Paul to accompany you. It's his responsibility as well as goodwill as a seller, whether he's busy or not. The shops mentioned above are open on saturday too.

[JAMYLIM]

Thks for all advise..Yes its my fault that I didnt exercise due diligence in checking the watch thoroughly before taking it but I would expect some decency from the seller to take responsibility for it instead of saying he didnt know of it or didnt open up and see (when he can even show the picture of the movement when he put it up for sale) the inside. This to me is misrepresentation of something he is trying to sell. I take it that he is no aware of all these parts not being "original" but the fact that he is the one who sold it to me shouldnt he have the courtesy to take it back? What can I do when he refuse to take it back? You think I will want to go hunt him down and try to pursue him and threaten him like some "ah long". To him this case is close. Whether he go on and create another nick or account - in future whoever want to deal with him should understand how he go about doing his business and if whoever can accept that then good luck to that person. I thank him for the nice lesson.

[polarinda]

Not all sellers will take the watch back even if parts are found to be unoriginal. The seller may say the buyer changed the parts after the sale and that the watch was all original under the seller's hand. Verbal warranty again, does nothing in court of law. WIth terms and conditions all muddled up in the warranty, nothing is transparent.

At the end of the day, it boils down to integrity and how much your reputation is worth to you. IS that $2000++ more important than taking the watch back now and be deemed a first class seller? ONly the seller can decide. SOme people cannot look beyond dollars and cents. Their thinking is :" wow wee, got away with this deal, lucky never take the watch back..."etc.. good luck to them.

But if one knowingly sells fake watches, that's another story.

[JAMYLIM]

You're right... its not about the money which is why I dont even want his S$300...For some they will salvage whatever they can from the last bits in such a situation but for me - it will be an insult for me to even take it --- to me this is like asking me to accept something against what I stand for.
My principal is worth more than that. Thanks

[JAMYLIM]

Bro, to be fair to Crippy---its not fake lah.. Its just not the original parts for this model.
I'm actually fine with it as long as the damn watch is working. Like I said before if we want 100% perfect then most of our vintage watches would have fail the test. Of course the repairer will tell you alot of imperfection but thats his job and what he's train and paid to do that's why I dont look forward to visiting one. More bad news than good ones. Thks