NO Box - NO Papers

[pegasi]

One of the reasons I prefer box/papers is because many other buyers prefer to have box/papers - something I have to take into consideration since I flip watches very often.

That is not to say that I don't appreciate the completeness of a nice watch with nice box and papers that tell you the exact date the watch left the shop (ya I know this isn't always accurate).

[Oceanklassik]

That actually depends who/where you are buying the pre-owned watch from. If it's from a second-hand watch shop/dealer, a short grace period of a few days may be granted. This, you'll have to communicate properly with the seller. If the purchase is with a watch owner, more commonly it'll be a "face-to-face-authentication-cum-transaction".

[pegasi]

maybe I just want piece of mind. For higher end watches, is there a registry when they're purchased?. I don't want to purchase a watch and years down, I go to get it serviced and find out that it was a stolen watch listed on an official registry.

It does not matter if the first owner was registered during the purchase of the watch. All the service centres (for watches) that I have been to, recognize only the watch not the person/name on the warranty card.

A stolen watch might be discovered when it is sent to the service centre, provided the owner whom watch was stolen makes a police report and informs the service centre (even then the service centre might not do anything unless upon the request of police). I haven't heard about such a case where someone discovers he bought a stolen watch when he send it for service, so you have to be damn heng to kena this.

[jtsk]

Guess best to have it authenticated.
Anyway how much does not having box, papers, etc... affect the value?

[patrickmaniac]

for vintage watches, it's quite difficult to find everything intact. For example JLC memovoxes from the 70s.
Even for 1655, really seldom find one with full papers, box and the whole works in good condition.
For modern watches there would be more chances of having the full works. But again, the boxes are not in good conditions after several years esp in our climate.

[Alexlow]

+1. Most of the more expensive Rolex does not come with b&p. 62XX, milsubs, DRSD etc..

for vintage watches, it's quite difficult to find everything intact. For example JLC memovoxes from the 70s.
Even for 1655, really seldom find one with full papers, box and the whole works in good condition.
For modern watches there would be more chances of having the full works. But again, the boxes are not in good conditions after several years esp in our climate.

[socketer]

Like many before me have mentioned, authentication is a must, box and papers to me is secondary as long as the price reflects the completeness... I buy my watch to wear not to put in safe.

True that complete set commands more, but the depreciation is somehow similar with or without b+p: buy complete set at full price, sell at full price; buy no bp set at reduced price, sell at reduced price...

For the record my wife threw away my Rolex box, as the box started turning sticky... Luckily the papers I kept separately in a folio...

[notelover]

Hello all.

There have been several great watches that I've come very close to purchasing in the past because of No Box - No Papers. But at the end, the nagging feeling stopped me.

- Is the watch stolen?.
- Is the watch a counterfeit?.
- Is the watch being sold without the real owners consent? (wife selling husband's watch?)
- Is there less re-sale value, when I want to sell in future?.

The common remark that i hear from 'owners' is that they lost the box during moving. But how can you lose a Rolex box?. Is it not important enough to keep safe?.

I just wanted so other points-of-view.. Maybe I should take the plunge and buy NO-box/No-paper???? any feedback would be great.

thanks

I never worried about buying a stolen watch... if it's so valuable and you kena traced down by the original owner or authority, then I bet it's not difficult for them to trace back to who you bought the watch from. For counterfeit, either rely on your experience, bring a loupe or bring it to the service center to verify.

[Watchnut]

I got some limited edition watches without box n papers

Just need to verify with the official service centres

Great rolex watches need no b n p but if still have them, its a big bonus!!!

Some rich pple do not care abt b n p... They just buy the watch n sell them at convenience sometimes...opportunities are always out there😄

[exxondus]

Generally for most if not all brands, when reselling without b&p will def reduce its value. Its not the watch or brand's fault. Its more by the buyers due to uncetainty

For me, no b&p doesnt matter if the orice reflects it. Reason being when i sell, i lose less since i bougt at significantly less. Byt what i cant stand is people advertising that its full set but upon viewing, turned out its incomplete or a mix and matched set.

[13 O'clock]

This is for those who intend to sell their watches w/o box and papers...
I recently advertise my Omega Seamaster to some sales forum. But i lost my box and papers while moving house, was really a PAIN, worst thing was, i only have a 6.25 inch wrist and the extra links to the bracelet was lost too, headache! On top of this, had a new watch incoming, so long story short..... SOLD it to a freaking pawn shop!! hahaha, Only loss $400 bucks all in all. All they need is your I/C and hp number.
Good luck to those that have the same problems i had.
Cheers

[Darkangel]

Just wondering...how much did you buy the watch? And how much did u sell it for?

[Dfive]

I understand your point of view and concerns raised, it's very common among the typical Singaporeans.

To be honest...ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. It could be stolen,it could be counterfeit, it could be sold without the real owner's consent.

I only see the facts in front of me, which is the watch itself. Whatever the seller's story or reason for selling, I will always take it with a pinch of salt. You can sell for whatever reason, which you don't wish to tell me and use something to cover up. There's no right or wrong about it. There's no law that says you must tell the real reason why you want to sell it. So just listen and continue checking out the watch while the seller tells his story.

If he's out to scam you, you are still gonna get scammed the moment you want to buy it. Cannot run from it, just have to take the next step to mitigate the issue.

As long as the item you are getting is what you feel is worth paying for, then by all means get it. His "selling story" may not match very well..but as long as you know what you are getting, I think it's fine.

Your questions:

Is watch authentic? -> If you have doubts with the seller's words, can always verify at whichever place you are comfortable with.

Is watch stolen? -> That is something beyond your control, just like buying TOTO, it's not within your means if you win the first prize.

Is there less resale value -> Yes resale is lower, but you buy cheaper and you sell cheaper. Isn't it the same as paying more for a watch with cert and selling off higher than one without? Whichever is comfortable to you and makes you smile in your sleep while wearing it.

Item sold without consent -> Say that happens...IF seller asks you to sell back to him due to that reason, the ball is in your court to believe it's the truth or not right? What makes you think that person is telling the truth? (Think again )

IF seller doesn't ask you to sell it back to him...then how you know? Just enjoy your watch


My personal view on NO Box and or Papers.

Box- Got money can buy, most (98%) of the boxes used by the different companies are generic across most models.
Papers - Got money cannot buy, but does having papers mean that it's authentic? NO. because anything can be possible.

As I always advice people, if you cannot overcome the mental barrier of the watch having any issue like those mentioned...nobody can help. Just buy brand new for a peace of your mind

Great answer !!

[Dfive]

Just wondering...how much did you buy the watch? And how much did u sell it for?

This is OFF TOPIC but as an example only..... On Nikon Professional lenses, we are talking some that are over $2000 - $3000.... you will loose 5-15% of value if you re-sell WITHOUT boxes n Paper.....

I to wonder on watches, Im thinking easily 10-25% loss in value and brand dependent. ( exception with vintage pieces perhaps.... it prob irrelevant. )

[Darkangel]

This is OFF TOPIC but as an example only..... On Nikon Professional lenses, we are talking some that are over $2000 - $3000.... you will loose 5-15% of value if you re-sell WITHOUT boxes n Paper.....

I to wonder on watches, Im thinking easily 10-25% loss in value and brand dependent. ( exception with vintage pieces perhaps.... it prob irrelevant. )

This is Kopi talk...no such thing as off topic HEHEHE