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  • #16
    TIME TO GET OUT OF THE MARKET!

    10:10 01Nov2011 RTRS-Greek referendum threatens new euro zone crisis

    * Greek PM calls shock referendum on second bailout package
    * Polls show majority of Greeks oppose deal
    * Opposition parties protest, want snap elections

    By Dina Kyriakidou and Harry Papachristou
    ATHENS, Nov 1 (Reuters) - Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has threatened the euro zone with a new crisis with his shock announcement that he will hold a referendum on the last-minute bailout deal struck only last week to try to contain the bloc's debt mountain.
    Euro zone leaders agreed to hand Athens a second, 130-billion-euro bailout and a 50-percent write-down on its enormous debt to make it sustainable.
    Papandreou, whose ruling Socialist party has suffered several defections as it pushes waves of austerity measures through parliament while protesters rally outside, said he needed wider political backing for the fiscal measures and structural reforms demanded by international lenders.
    "If there was to be a referendum, we may reasonably conclude that they may not accept the austerity measures. We may conclude that it will bring the pack of cards tumbling down," Howard Wheeldon, senior strategist at BGC Partners in London, said.
    Analysts said holding a referendum -- likely to be held early next year and only Greece's second in almost 40 years -- was baffling, given that the latest opinion poll showed a majority of Greeks took a negative view of the bailout deal.
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    For analysts' reaction, click on [ID:nL5E7LV493]
    For full euro zone coverage, click on [nTOPEURO]
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    Early reactions to the surprise move ranged from accusations that Papandreou was gambling with the country's future and predictions of default, to questions over the constitutional legality of the referendum and statements by lawmakers that a No vote would force his resignation and early elections.
    Nobel prize-winning economist Christopher Pissarides caught the renewed mood of uncertainty: "It is difficult to predict what will happen to Greece if they reject it. It will be bad enough for the European Union and the euro zone in particular, but it will be far worse for Greece.
    "In the scenario of a 'no' vote Greece would declare bankruptcy immediately, they would default immediately. I can't see them staying within the euro," he said.
    Analysts were divided over whether Greek voters would accept the deal, but agreed that a damaging month or two of market volatility lay ahead while pollsters repeatedly took the Greek voters' pulse and European leaders looked on nervously.
    "This is going to bring back volatility and uncertainty in the market and essentially erase all the efforts made by the EU to make a deal," said Kathy Lien, director of currency research at GFT Forex, New Jersey.
    "... with 60 percent against it, getting this passed will be a challenge, if passed it will provide extreme relief but given the protests and opposition it will be very difficult."
    The immediate market reaction to the announcement was negative, the euro extending losses against the dollar and tumbling more than 2 percent to a session low.[ID:nN1E79U1F5]
    Opposition New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras will visit President Karolos Papoulias on Tuesday to discuss developments and push for snap elections, party officials said.
    "Mr. Papandreou is dangerous, he tosses Greece's EU membership like a coin in the air," party spokesman Yannis Michelakis said. "He cannot govern and instead of withdrawing honorably, he dynamites everything."

    UP TO THE VOTERS
    Papandreou told the Greek voters it was up to them to decide the country's fate.
    "We trust citizens, we believe in their judgment, we believe in their decision," he told Socialist party deputies. "In a few weeks the (EU) agreement will be a new loan contract... we must spell out if we are accepting it or if we are rejecting it."
    Papandreou, grappling with Greece's worst financial crisis in 40 years, said the referendum would take place in a few weeks. Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos told Greek TV it would probably be held early next year.
    Opposition parties accused Papandreou of looking for a way out for his embattled party by dragging Greece, which has seen violent clashes between anti-austerity protesters and riot police, through a lengthy period of political instability.
    "I never expected Papandreou to take such a dangerous and frivolous decision," said Dora Bakoyanni, former foreign minister and leader of the small centre-right Democratic Alliance party. "All the international media will say that Greece itself is putting the EU deal at risk."
    Papandreou also said he would ask for a vote of confidence to secure support for his policy for the rest of his four-year term, which expires in 2013.
    Analysts said he was likely to win that, despite dissent among his parliamentary team, and parliament officials said the confidence debate would begin on Wednesday, with a vote on Thursday or Friday.

    MONEY RUNNING OUT?
    Greece is due to receive an 8 billion euro tranche in mid-November, but that is likely to run out during January, around the time of the referendum, leaving the government with no funds if there was a 'no' vote.
    Swinging opinion polls would leave markets fluctuating, and Greece's EU partners dangling, and could prompt a run on Greek banks by nervous savers.
    A survey carried out on Saturday showed that nearly 60 percent of Greeks viewed last week's EU summit agreement on the new bailout package as negative or probably negative. [ID:nL5E7LT04D]
    But David Lea of Control Risks struck a more positive note. "It's all in the question. If he can frame it as a sufficiently apple-pie issue, he stands some chance of winning," he said.
    There was no early reaction from Greece's EU partners.
    Germany issued a statement saying the EU was working hard to put the second Greek aid package in place by the end of the year and had no comment on the referendum. EU leaders hammered out the deal in the hope of preventing the Greek debt crisis from spreading to other euro zone countries and shaking global markets.

    QUESTIONS OVER LEGALITY
    Some parliamentarians questioned the legality of the planned plebiscite under the constitution, which does not allow referendums on economic issues, only on matters of great national importance.
    The last time Greeks held a referendum was in December 1974, when they voted to abolish the monarchy shortly after the collapse of a military dictatorship.
    "It's debatable whether the constitution allows such a referendum," said Fotis Kouvelis, leader of the small Democratic Left party. "The country must go to early elections. Given the situation, it's the most honourable solution."
    To be binding, a referendum result requires a minimum 40 percent turnout on issues of "crucial national importance" and 50 percent on a law that has already been voted on in parliament and "regulates a serious social issue", according to legislation enacted earlier this year. It was not clear which option the government would favour.
    "If the referendum answer is no, Papandreou has to resign," said Costas Panagopoulos, an analyst at polling firm Alco.
    "In the meantime what will happen with the decisions the EU took last week? I cannot understand what the prime minister wants to do."
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    • #17
      market is so volatile these days! Lost almost 40% in my investment in stocks

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      • #18
        The big question is whether Europe side will crash or be saved? What do u guys think?

        Comment


        • #19
          This meltdown is inevitable whether or not Europe can be saved! This scenario is like someone borrowing from MasterCard to pay Visa, then from Amex to pay MasterCard. It solves the problem for a short while but snowballs into a bigger problem unless along the way, they are willing to take huge cuts and sacrifices. The west have enjoyed decades of prosperity thru the misuse of credit, it's time they pay for their sins. This crisis can only be contained but never resolved unless mountains of debts can be written off. If you guys are interested, you can watch a YouTube vid called 'money as debt' and see for yourself the seriousness of the issue.
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          • #20
            wow...looks like it's time to pull out and conserve cash for the meltdown...

            Comment


            • #21
              I've already dumped all my stocks last month, luckily I was decisive and I've made the right move, lost just a little but glad I did it! Now, I just sit back and enjoy the show....
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              • #22
                my feel is that the top echelon of the EU countries have been too comfortable for far too long, so much so that even though they know that the new austerity measures gives their countries a chance at life, they are very unwilling to commit for that means a reduced quality of life for them. The people at the bottom as a result suffer.

                Comment


                • #23
                  cash is never king due to inflation.

                  derivatives are another factor we must be aware of... another giant bubble(s?) there.
                  “Watches, no matter how much they cost, are better at telling time than making a person happy.” - Thomas J. Stanley

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Paper money in actual fact is pretty useless now due to the fact that some countries are printing notes without gold deposits known as fiat currency. The reason why we are still accepting it as a form of payment is bcos the system is too deep rooted. To sum it up in short, the world's financial system is critically ill. So much so that the paper money system we are using today may even fail. Barter trade?! Anyone?? Haha...
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                    • #25
                      Gold is king!

                      Or at least reflected in the price.
                      Audemars Piguet Ball Bell&Ross Cartier IWC Longines Omega Panerai Rolex Sinn Tissot

                      Alba Casio Citizen Roox Seiko

                      Wanted to add PP but bo lui

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        the realities of the bretton woods system is that it won't work for long except in a utopian (IMO) world.

                        fiat currencies have been used since the dynasties of china... *insert image of Stephen Chow comically throwing yin piaos to beggars here* - they are nothing unusual.

                        but your currency is only as good as the government that allows the currency to exist. so the debate of whether or not a nation should join the euro zone is very much debatable (greece EU$ vs switzerland CHF debate).

                        therefore if your government is stable has a sizeable FX and gold reserve, the currency would be probably be fine. further it is likely that the EU and US doesn't want an over reliance on physical gold as they want to remain a dominant reserve currency... such a shift would weaken the value(???) of their currency.

                        however, for a whole host of reasons, i don't see the US$ being replaced by anything else (including "gold" which has no practical purpose in modern day) so our singapore dollar will, in all probability, be fine too. bartering is off the cards for now... for me at least!

                        i'm going all sleepy thinking about what little i know of how the financial world works... EOF!
                        “Watches, no matter how much they cost, are better at telling time than making a person happy.” - Thomas J. Stanley

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The only winners now are those who are out of the world of stock markets now. The downfall of US + EU is going to pull Asia down, nothing is safe. One can prolly make more money in Asian stocks, definitely less from US stocks i.e. you gain from capital gains(maybe) + dividends but what now? the value of USD is dropping like crazy. In the end, what do you make?

                          However like what Jim Rogers always say, commodities(Agriculture + precious metal IMHO) always win. The value of currencies will drop to zero, some day, some how, however the value of commodities will never drop to zero. Just my 2c of comment.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            best is stay cash now

                            PIIGS gonna get roast soon... Greece is just a cover page for a major disaster novel. The worst yet to come...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I cut my stocks and lost a "day date" recently but I'm glad I did it.


                              Agree best to hold Singapore dollars and my Gold Rolex Collection
                              My 18K Gold Day Date "President" Collection:
                              1) WG DIA 18239
                              2) YG DIA 18238
                              3) WG 18239
                              4) YG 18238
                              5) YG 18248G Bark
                              6) WG DIA 18039
                              7) WG 18039
                              8) YG 18038
                              9) Tridor DIA 18039B
                              10) YG DIA 18078 Bark
                              11) RG 1803 (Mint V.Rare)
                              12) WG 1803
                              13) YG 1803

                              50th Anniversary Collection:
                              1)GMT II 116718 18K
                              2)Sub 16610LV Mk1 x 4pcs ( 3F + 1 Y!)

                              Others
                              1)Daytona RG 116505 18K
                              2)D15037 14k
                              3)DJ16238 18K

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                i was foolish to believe that mutual funds are the one to go... I was dumb before i was schooled... cut loss and lost a ND sub..

                                Gathering bullets to enter next year..

                                Comment

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