Product Review

[ten10]

PRODUCT REVIEW - WATCH WINDER

Note: - This review expresses my own opinion and all information here are gathered from my visit to this outlet. Calculations are based on mathematical logic.


Last weekend I chance upon a shop at 313 Somerset selling Lifestyle Products such as massage chairs, handheld massages, magnetic bracelets, etc. They have included watch winders in their range of products too. They have also advertised this in the Feb 10th edition of the TODAY’s paper.




I’ve seen a similar products on the web as well, marketed under all sorts of brands. Anyway, their product looks decent from the exterior and has a lock, but I was more curious about its functions. I requested the sales person to give me a demonstration. Here’s what I’ve found out.

a) Rotating cup turns 9 revolutions in one minute (measured with my cellphone’s stopwatch function)

b) It has 5 modes of operation (which I really insist that the STOP mode is not counted)
- Mode 1: Rotates CW for 2 minutes, then stops for 6 minutes (repeats the whole day)
- Mode 2: Rotates CCW for 2 minutes, then stops for 6 minutes (repeats the whole day)
- Mode 3: Rotates CW for 2 minutes, stops for 6 minutes, then rotates CCW for 2 minutes, stops for 6 minutes (repeats this sequence the whole day)
- Mode 4: Rotates CW for 5 minutes, then CCW for 5 minutes; sequence repeats for 3 hours then stops for 9 hours… then repeats again.
- Mode 5: STOP

c) They have the single watch winder (quite similar to Orbita’s), 2-watch winder and the 4-watch winder.

d) All branches have ‘SOLD OUT’ the 2 and 4-watch winders, which I suspect is just a marketing hype. They only brought in a few units (show pieces) to test the market.

e) The sample 2-watch winder I tested rotates silently and has the function knobs up front, which is what I like. I want immediate access to the controls rather than groping behind the unit for the knobs. Nothing too complicated about it. I like that straight-forward approach.

f) Price-wise: Single ($250+), Double ($490+) and 4-watch ($880+); 1 year warranty.

g) TPDs are fixed and pre-programmed by the factory. When I asked what TPD has been set, the Sales Staff was dumbfounded. He doesn’t know what I was talking about. So I started to calculate the TPD for him. Here is what I found.

TPD Calculation
I took MODE 1 as an example.

The winder rotates CW for 2 minutes and stops for 6 minutes (this sequence repeats the whole day). This is their winding sequence. In short, the sequence repeats 180 times in a day.

Explaination:
1440minutes a day divided by 8 minutes per sequence = 180 repeated sequence in one day
- where 1440 is the total minutes in a day and 8 minutes is the total time for one sequence

Since the cup rotates at 9 revolutions per minute, it delivers 18 revolutions in the 2 minutes.

Multiply 18 revolutions by 180 = 3240 revolutions per day (Turns per Day)

This means that the unit provides 3240TPD just for the CW Direction (MODE 1).

Maybe I’m too technical but I’d rather be safe to follow the requirements of my watch. So far I know Rolex requires between 650TPD to 800TPD maintaining its state of wind. This can be found on a US Winder Manufacturer website. From what I heard from others, a watch winder should not completely wind a watch.

So due to this fact, I didn’t buy the winder from this particular shop.

Maybe other members have their own view on this but this is just mine lah!

cheers,
ten10

[bo_cheng_hoo]

bro, u really make ur effort to calculate the turn. pei fu pei fu!!

[triton]

wonder if there is a disclaimer that if the watch is damaged in any way when used with the winder.

[triton]

that is close to 3-5 times the normal limit of any watch that uses clockwise direction recommended by orbita

PRODUCT REVIEW - WATCH WINDER

Explaination:
1440minutes a day divided by 8 minutes per sequence = 180 repeated sequence in one day
- where 1440 is the total minutes in a day and 8 minutes is the total time for one sequence

Since the cup rotates at 9 revolutions per minute, it delivers 18 revolutions in the 2 minutes.

Multiply 18 revolutions by 180 = 3240 revolutions per day (Turns per Day)

This means that the unit provides 3240TPD just for the CW Direction (MODE 1).

Maybe I’m too technical but I’d rather be safe to follow the requirements of my watch. So far I know Rolex requires between 650TPD to 800TPD maintaining its state of wind. This can be found on a US Winder Manufacturer website. From what I heard from others, a watch winder should not completely wind a watch.

So due to this fact, I didn’t buy the winder from this particular shop.

Maybe other members have their own view on this but this is just mine lah!

cheers,
ten10

[psee]

Interesting info bro ten10! Thks for sharing

[vortexkim]

Just add a programmable timer for less than 10 dollars to achieve the required TPD.

[exxondus]

Thanks for sharing!

One of the reasons why I don like to anyhow buy winders and place my watches on it

[triton]

if i have to buy a programmable timer and calculate when it to turn the winder on and off, this would defeat the purpose getting a winder to wind the watch to the required power reserve right?

if ihave to buy a programmable timer to complement this winder, this mean that the winder is 'not functioning properly' right? if that is the case, why spend money on a faulty product?

i would appreciate if you can share with us why you would buy a faulty product in the first place?

Just add a programmable timer for less than 10 dollars to achieve the required TPD.

[triton]

this why i have advise people who have asked me about watch winder to always check on 2 most important aspects when getting a watch winder

1) the number of TPD that is pre-programmed or if can set TPD
2) the ability to set individual winding direction
3) avoid getting a winder holder to house 2 watch because of 'weight' issue

[vortexkim]

Simply runs the winder for 8 hrs daily with the setting of programmable timer. It will achieve the min 650 TPD.

Been using this method for my 4 watch winder.

[ten10]

Simply runs the winder for 8 hrs daily with the setting of programmable timer. It will achieve the min 650 TPD.

Been using this method for my 4 watch winder.

Hi bro, 8hrs on this winder will give about 1080TPD.

Calculation:
2min x 9rpm = 18
8hrs is 480mins right? So in 480min there'll be 60 such sequence.
Meaning, 18 x 60 = 1080TPD


My advice is to only use it for 6hrs a day in such a winder. Then you'll get about 810TPD.

This is just the basic logical calculation and I haven't gone into Angular Velocity yet.

But bro (just as Triton said) what's the point of using a timer if the winder doesn't do the work for you right? Buy oredi must work swee-swee mah!

Some more, that time I see the sample... they put two watches on each turn-table (one men's & one ladies). If put two men's watch sure kena elbow each other. The spacing in-betwn the two slots narrow lah. I think it was only about 10mm; should be 20mm or more.

If got chance, someone pass to me the same winder... I can do an "open Heart" product review to describe up to the inerts.

Just be careful with your hard-earn cash bro. Watch very precious. Nowadays money difficult to earn lah!

[triton]

u mean u bought 4 watch winders or a winder catered for 4 watches?

i must salute you that you took the time and effort to do calcuation and based on ten10's calculation, your calculation seems off.

to be able to used a programmable timer to counter this, confirm you not a watch newbie.

if you not watch newbie, i am surprised that you bought this winder. or you really did buy because of price?

Simply runs the winder for 8 hrs daily with the setting of programmable timer. It will achieve the min 650 TPD.

Been using this method for my 4 watch winder.

[ten10]

Since 10 years ago when I started designing and making watch winders, I'm well aware of the dangers of overwinding. Although it does not pose an immediate threat, I feel there should be a way to avoid it totally. The way I would avoid it is to design-in (with technology) a proper control for TPDs and keeping track on this.

I'm here to share what I've learnt from the past decade on winders that many people think is just a simple box with a motor that turns. What I've discovered was there's more to it. Even the angle of winding is related or corelated to the RPM of the motor and could eventually affect your TPDs. I've covered almost everything in my DIY Section about my insights on a watch winder friends. It gives you a clearer picture of articles I've read.

This is an abstract from an article by Walt Arnstein who has given many technical analysis about watches and watch winders.

3.0 How a Watch Winder Affects a Watch

Having placed a watch on a winder, we expect it to do only one thing: Wind the watch's mainspring and keep it wound in such a way that the watch will always be ready to wear at a moment's notice and be showing the right time. But as with all things, what you get is not always wholly and uniquely what you want.

To wind a watch, the winder has to turn it, using the force of gravity to keep the rotor stationary while the watch rotates about it. Well, nothing comes without its price; so one unavoidable requirement for winding the watch in this way is that we must establish a torque differential between the rotor's gear train and the resting torque already built up in the mainspring, much as we need a level difference, however small, in order to be able to pour water from one container to another. In other words, the winding system must produce a torque greater than that to which it is adding energy and a winder does this in a steady and continuous fashion while it is turning the watch.

Naturally, the extra torque is passed on to the watch's gear train and the escapement. To be sure, the increment is not large but it is felt. Of that you can be sure. So for better or for worse, we can assert that the watch's balance wheel's amplitude of oscillation will at best increase ever so slightly while the watch is turning compared to the amplitude when the watch is resting. The isochronism adjustment built into the watch, if any, could minimize the net effect, but the effect will definitely be there. This could explain many owners' puzzlement with the fact that their watches run at a different rate (usually faster) on a winder than they do on the wrist or on the dresser top…not to mention running differently on one winder compared to another winder.

Once the mainspring reaches the slippage point, the added torque could increase significantly, particularly if the slippage threshold has moved up as a result of poor lubrication inside the mainspring barrel. Recall that this is hardly noticed on a watch that is being worn on the wrist.

But let us assume that we will not allow the watch to run on the winder beyond the point where slippage of the mainspring begins to take place. We will program our winder by suitable means to wind the watch just short of its full wind condition. Still – and this is significant – the watch's gear train will be subjected to greater-than-normal torque for any periods during which the watch is actually rotating on the winder.

Now we all know, and winder instruction manuals tell us clearly, that each watch has a required daily minimum of rotor turns (meaning also watch turns on the winder) in order to keep the watch from eventually running down. The average such requirement seems to be between 500 and 700 turns per day, but the figure 720 is a favorite setting for a winder in that it adds just enough daily turns to compensate for periods when the watch is off the winder and loses some mainspring tension as a result.

The above requirement has introduced a new variable: The time the watch spends actually rotating on the winder. And winders differ greatly in how they go about turning the watches. This will be examined in the next section.


If you're interested to read the entire article pls click this.
Or, if you want casual reading, pls go to my blog in the DIY Section.