Will you speak up?

[116520]

Forget it lah... can't force people to sell also what... people do make mistakes... I think Singaporeans complain too much... just go and check out stomp, I hope here will not become another stomp...

Guys, pls don't go into "shooting mode" here. That's what I don't want. P K as it is, is still a legitimate company and running a decent business of selling watches, etc. What I wish to discuss here is whether we are 'daring' or 'mature' enough to share on our experiences/encounters with the forum advertisers, with the forum.

For example, you come across an ad from a forum advertisement here, or even a private seller/PI. A watch is then posted for sale for $5,000. You happy-happy pay a visit to the shop intending to make a purchase and discover that the watch is actually selling for $6,000. After further enquiry you did not get a satisfactory answer and the watch is still selling at $6,000.

A. You just let the matter rest and forget about it.
B. You give feedback in the forum w/o naming the company/person.
C. You give feedback in the forum and named the company/person.

[seiko.citizen]

If i get good service i will speak up. If i get bad service i will also speak up. Recently I went to a few boutiques in perth. Of all the boutiques i went to; only smales (subiaco; rolex dealer) and burberry see me no up.

Obviously complaining here wont do any good. But in local oz forums, i have no problems speaking up.

[Oceanklassik]

Forget it lah... can't force people to sell also what... people do make mistakes... I think Singaporeans complain too much... just go and check out stomp, I hope here will not become another stomp...

It's not about "stomping" I am getting it. It's purely integrity. I am fine with the smaller issues - higher pricing, not up to par service, minor communications error, etc. But it's about integrity. Do note that there are many more worthy and more deserving businesses/companies out there, so I think it is only right that sometimes, we should be a little "ngeow" about certain things/issues.

[Wenda]

Good or bad I think no harm of speaking up. However, if it is bad and the seller is willing to rectify the problem(s), then to me that is fine. I rarely have experience with local ADs but I have many transactions with many members, both here and overseas. Generally I think it's been a positive experience. Must know what to expect also.

[uglybaba]

I think many people do not know their rights and lack of information on business laws, thus the hold back when writing something negative in the forum, for fear of igniting more "followers" who start firing down a particular entity. We've seen too many cases whereby replies to the TS are not only not constructive, but fanning for bigger flames.

In Ocean's quote where there's already an advert placed for $5000, that's already an offer and if I accepts it and visit the shop to only find out that the piece is actually going for $6000, the advertiser who made the offer has to bear the responsibility. In this case, I will post it online to warn the rest.

However there are also many complications involved, even when you see an offer posted, as consumer, we should know things to look out for like T&C, actual product offered etc (5k is 5k, you wouldn't want to reach the shop and to realize that the watch doesn't comes with bracelet/ straps). in short, it's caveat emptor for me.

[triton]

those who do business law may want to clarify.

[116520]

Price agreed but no bracelet or strap??? In that case, then the seller get no cash loh... just rubbish... no need law, this is not business...

On the other hand, if he/she post $5k but insist $6k, understooded, I still can forgive. Like what uglybaba mentioned, I will also post in forum to "inform" others the actual price but not "complain" this seller not honest lah, the most I just make some noise saying waste my time going down, etc very similar to some ADs' so-called BIG SALE, many bros also post here saying wasted their time, etc...

I think many people do not know their rights and lack of information on business laws, thus the hold back when writing something negative in the forum, for fear of igniting more "followers" who start firing down a particular entity. We've seen too many cases whereby replies to the TS are not only not constructive, but fanning for bigger flames.

In Ocean's quote where there's already an advert placed for $5000, that's already an offer and if I accepts it and visit the shop to only find out that the piece is actually going for $6000, the advertiser who made the offer has to bear the responsibility. In this case, I will post it online to warn the rest.

However there are also many complications involved, even when you see an offer posted, as consumer, we should know things to look out for like T&C, actual product offered etc (5k is 5k, you wouldn't want to reach the shop and to realize that the watch doesn't comes with bracelet/ straps). in short, it's caveat emptor for me.

[uglybaba]

Price agreed but no bracelet or strap??? In that case, then the seller get no cash loh... just rubbish... no need law, this is not business...

The law comes in useful when a transaction gets complicated. Even in a forum, we are responsible for our posts. If I am to start a warning post about a particular organization, I will make sure I get my facts and rights correctly first, less being sued for libel.

Maybe a little overwhelming to some, but a little more knowledge in this area does help at times..

Those interested can go to:

http://www.business.gov.sg/EN/Govern...Protection.htm

Just my 2 cents worth..

[uglybaba]

go to

http://www.case.org.sg/downloads/CPF...0practices.doc

under item 8

.....8 charging a price for goods or services that is substantially higher than an estimate provided to the consumer, except where the consumer has expressly agreed to the higher price in advance

Charging a price higher than what was estimated by the seller, unless both parties had agreed upon the final price

Example:

Consumer called plumber to repair a leak and the payment was agreed at $50. After repair, plumber then insisted on $150 for total repair bill


I think most of us will not go to the extend to CASE for such trivial matter, but when it comes to posting on forum, at least we know we are not wrong to shout out..

[116520]

Personally, I wouldn't bother about the laws... just be smart, street smart, don't anyhow give your hard-earned money to people, you will not need those laws... laws are black and white, if people want to cheat you, they can have ways to counter those laws

e.g. Plumber quote me $50, I pay $50... if he ask for $150, I will ask him to come back on the 30th of this month to get the money from me....

On the other hand, if plumber quote $50 and insisted on $150 after repair, you give him the cash... then you not happy, go court, police, or case to ask for your money back... very hard loh... he can give all kind excuses like, transport fees, cost of replacement, labour, etc... you think you can get your money back???

[116520]

Even if you post on forum, assuming it is SG-PLUMBER.com, you give your reasons, he gives his reasons, never ending story... it will be very hard to judge who is right or who is wrong.

Assuming only buyer posting, just based on one-sided story and I think it is also not fair to the seller too... if the buyer was quoted $50, why he paid $150 and then go forum and complain???

As I said before, if such plumber ask me to pay $150, I don't pay and I will not need to post in the forum and complain... he quoted $50, he get $50, that's it...

go to

http://www.case.org.sg/downloads/CPF...0practices.doc

under item 8

.....8 charging a price for goods or services that is substantially higher than an estimate provided to the consumer, except where the consumer has expressly agreed to the higher price in advance

Charging a price higher than what was estimated by the seller, unless both parties had agreed upon the final price

Example:

Consumer called plumber to repair a leak and the payment was agreed at $50. After repair, plumber then insisted on $150 for total repair bill


I think most of us will not go to the extend to CASE for such trivial matter, but when it comes to posting on forum, at least we know we are not wrong to shout out..

[uglybaba]

I agree with you. Just from my personal view, that's probably why people do not want to put in negative feedback because not sure if they have the rights, the fear of being rebuke or sued maybe there. No harm acquiring more knowledge in this, I think.

[116520]

Ya loh... this is what we called "社会大学", you pay and you learn... on the other hand, no harm posting what are the "tricks" these bad sellers use and we can save a lot on school fees...

I agree with you. Just from my personal view, that's probably why people do not want to put in negative feedback because not sure if they have the rights, the fear of being rebuke or sued maybe there. No harm acquiring more knowledge in this, I think.

[seiko.citizen]

...e.g. Plumber quote me $50, I pay $50... if he ask for $150, I will ask him to come back on the 30th of this month to get the money from me....

hard to say in cases like this; im sure we all kenna from auto garages. they say oil and filter change. 1.5hr later they call you up; say bushes need to change. brake disk need shimming. so how?

or as per the plumber case. you ask him to change seal and resand the internals. he come back to you; say you need arrester etc. better still; he say, to regrind the tap cost extra. those in plumbing line will know that if tap never regrind; no matter how good the seal is; you will always have a leaky tap.

speaking of which; i got to do my whole house taps soon

[Oceanklassik]

I'm glad to see some robust discussion here and I feel assured that we have very smart, matured, right-minded members here. Let's keep it going guys