your views on gray dealers

[ErnieH.]

Something be done? By me?? Can I??? Sorry Ms ErnieH., or Mr ErnieH., whoever you are. I am merely one of the (more active) members here whom I still do not understand why I'm "bestowed" with the label of "Moderator(Apprentice)".. ? Maybe triton can enlighten.

So we are still awaiting for the Adminstrator to agree to what I would think an easy question, I wonder why the hesitation, may be he is busy somewhere else, hopefully he still replies tonight and I can happily post the answer and show you the proof in person.

[seiko.citizen]

All awaiting your response to support the above claims.

[triton]

first you feel strongly that why you want action to be taken against this gray dealer. however, in what way has this gray dealer been deemed untrustworthy. i think the administration can only take action if there is a case with evidence to strongly support that this gray dealer is indeed untrustworthy. i can only assure you that it will be reviewed and process to improve the system to safeguard interests of the buyers.

OK I will, if you as the Administrator would promise to take solid action against the gray market dealer involved, I have also understood that this particular gray market dealer has said in closed circles that he has Carte Blanc on this website and can post anything he wants since nothing will happen to him, could this be true? If it is, then once reported all I do is get banned and the posts deleted. I am not trying to question your ethics or anyone's ethics here but I know what is true and what is not as well as what this particular gray market delaer has posted here. As I say not trying to offend anyone just trying to stop the lying done by a particular gray market dealer here.

[triton]

answer your easy question? i have already mentioned earlier, it has be reviewed.

if you are questioning my hesitation, do understand that there is something call SLEEP. i have my full-time job, i am currently trying to complete my studies, i have a family to take care of. Being an administrator here does not mean i have to be here constantly.

So we are still awaiting for the Adminstrator to agree to what I would think an easy question, I wonder why the hesitation, may be he is busy somewhere else, hopefully he still replies tonight and I can happily post the answer and show you the proof in person.

[KuchingKu]

I suggest you just PM the info to Triton and let him understand your concerns. Whether to publish this out can decide after the discussion.

[sandisk7]

Hmm...back on the topic.

I feel one more plus point for gray market dealers is that they also buy your watches, freeing up additional funds for you to go after your next target since not all of us have unlimited funds for watches. Whereas AD will only sell...

[ErnieH.]

first you feel strongly that why you want action to be taken against this gray dealer. however, in what way has this gray dealer been deemed untrustworthy. i think the administration can only take action if there is a case with evidence to strongly support that this gray dealer is indeed untrustworthy. i can only assure you that it will be reviewed and process to improve the system to safeguard interests of the buyers.

Would you really take action against this Gray Market Dealer Named Aston, the SG Roc Founder? Post No. 7 of this thread http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=49724 states:

Gucci FULL LEATHER very classy looking bag...at half price...crazy but true! 81801296 (Aston)

Yet when I sms'ed Aston about this asked him the original retail price he said he FORGOT, I then told him in the sms that I could check with Gucci about the retail price and he said he and I quote:

50% was a rough estimate bro, sry for any misunderstanding

Welll isn/t that nice, now he relaizes he has lied, apologises for it and then leaves the quote up for all to see. What does half price mean to any of you? For me if a man of honor and ethics says it is half price off retail then that is what it means but it would seem that with this Gray Market Dealer it truly means something else and I have the sms's from his hand phone to prove it.

So what are you going to do now, Triton? Is this the kind of Gray Market Dealer that SG Roc supports?

Oh, I did recieve one more sms from this gray market dealer but if he has admited his mistake/lying/misunderstanding in 2 SMS now then why did he never change the posting?

I'm sorry for causing any misunderstanding bro. But in any case, there was no intention of lying

Ok so fair enough so what let this possible one time misunderstanding stand? It is still there today, it was pointed out to him more than 4 days ago yet it still stands?

[triton]

can you advise me on what is the retail price of this item?

[jazziceman]

Gosh! 吃不到葡萄，说葡萄酸！

[seiko.citizen]

what i dont get is, if you were able to check with gucci about the price, why not get the price and compile the post with all the information. As for half price, it is assumed 50%, but to be fair, he did mention the rrp was $2k plus (meaning: $2000-$2999.99). So any rrp in between those ranges isn't wrong.

You go to a shop; enquire about an item. the sales guy tell you rrp about $2000-2500. my selling price is 30% off rrp. You expect the price to be $1400 exact? No right? The discount can be based in between $2000-2500. Like everything you read, take it with a pinch of salt. how big the pinch is up to you.

You may interpret things differently from me. YMMV.

[Caliber]

Would you really take action against this Gray Market Dealer Named Aston, the SG Roc Founder? Post No. 7 of this thread http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=49724 states:



Yet when I sms'ed Aston about this asked him the original retail price he said he FORGOT, I then told him in the sms that I could check with Gucci about the retail price and he said he and I quote:




Welll isn/t that nice, now he relaizes he has lied, apologises for it and then leaves the quote up for all to see. What does half price mean to any of you? For me if a man of honor and ethics says it is half price off retail then that is what it means but it would seem that with this Gray Market Dealer it truly means something else and I have the sms's from his hand phone to prove it.

So what are you going to do now, Triton? Is this the kind of Gray Market Dealer that SG Roc supports?

Oh, I did recieve one more sms from this gray market dealer but if he has admited his mistake/lying/misunderstanding in 2 SMS now then why did he never change the posting?



Ok so fair enough so what let this possible one time misunderstanding stand? It is still there today, it was pointed out to him more than 4 days ago yet it still stands?

tink u hv very serious personality prob.go see a doc.recommen u 1 at woodbridge

[116520]

What is the problem here??? Aston is lier? I don't think so, I have bought things from him before and he is very nice. Nobody force you to buy from him, he ain't no Gucci ADs, even if he "lie" on the list price, one thing for sure is that you can get better price from him than buying from Gucci boutique.... so what is the big deal???

Would you really take action against this Gray Market Dealer Named Aston, the SG Roc Founder? Post No. 7 of this thread http://www.sg-roc.com/showthread.php?t=49724 states:



Yet when I sms'ed Aston about this asked him the original retail price he said he FORGOT, I then told him in the sms that I could check with Gucci about the retail price and he said he and I quote:




Welll isn/t that nice, now he relaizes he has lied, apologises for it and then leaves the quote up for all to see. What does half price mean to any of you? For me if a man of honor and ethics says it is half price off retail then that is what it means but it would seem that with this Gray Market Dealer it truly means something else and I have the sms's from his hand phone to prove it.

So what are you going to do now, Triton? Is this the kind of Gray Market Dealer that SG Roc supports?

Oh, I did recieve one more sms from this gray market dealer but if he has admited his mistake/lying/misunderstanding in 2 SMS now then why did he never change the posting?



Ok so fair enough so what let this possible one time misunderstanding stand? It is still there today, it was pointed out to him more than 4 days ago yet it still stands?

[tsetse]

do you feel that gray dealers for watches are good for the market?

yes

1) it helps to bring down the actual price of the watch compared to brick and motar shops. however, brick and motar shops has got fixed expenses such as rent to cover. gray dealers don't.

2) by bringing down the the price, it does create more demand. with more demand, the brand gets more exposure.

no

1) if anything goes wrong with the watch (sinn), they not likely to do anything except refer you to service centre to help you after sale is completed. this is where AD comes in

2) gray dealers only bring in brands that they can make profit. so this means limited choices. i don't see many gray dealers bring in brands like GO, JLC and IWC(limited selection). mainly rolex(mainly sports models), panerai (almost all popular models) and AP (mainly ROO).

3) possibly of fraud cases. with AD, it is almost 100% fraud free. that is why you pay more.

4) credit card payment or installment plan not available. with AD, you can choose for either of such payment methods.

neutral

1) building a r/s with your gray dealers and AD does have benefits. im lucky to be able to receive complimentary items from both sides. depending on what freebies you looking at.

Im neutral for grey dealers, the pros about grey dealers would be that those limited edition models or certain controlled qty models will be more freely available in our market which is good. Con is, for models that are common here, it would have some sort of price erosion though. But then again its good for the cash rich who have ready cash to buy watches that they desire or like at a much better price.

Reason for ADs to claim no stock, long waiting list, etc would be to control the market, create an invisible kinda demand for a particular brand or watch and only cater to their VIP customers and also maintain or even bring up prices past the RRP of certain brands and models. This will help to maintain resale value for certain brands or watches. Its a win win situation for both ADs and the VIP customers but normal customers like us are at the losing end though.

Therefore I would conclude that ADs cater to the so called VIP market and the grey market dealers would be more relevant for buyers like myself where I cannot afford sky high prices for certain models. Its only when I do not have the cash to buy certain models or I do not want to wait for a grey market dealer to bring in my watch then I approach the ADs.

As for authenticity, just go to service centres to verify, small price to pay to ensure you got an authentic watch. Small issue on this.

[jslim]

I have never dealt with him before but from what I see, I do not know what is the point you are trying to prove. I went to his thread to take a look. So from your point, if the actual price is below $2600 or above $2600 = he's lying about the price not being EXACTLY at half price.

If the price being above $2600, say $2800. Half price is $1400, so he lied and he is charging you at a price better than half price. So you would prefer to pay him the half price which is $1400 or his quoted price of $1300?

From a consumer's point of view, I would rather pay less than more, am I right? End of the day, what we want is a deal that is good for both the buyer and seller, he may have typed wrongly, everyone makes mistakes don't we?

Let's say the price is below $2600, he maybe wrong that half price is actually more than $1300 that he quoted. True that he is incorrect in his post, but I believe he has taken a step back and apologised. I think not many sellers out there would actually bother to apologise sometimes. Let's not make things difficult for everyone, if you made a mistake and you did apologise, won't you want the understanding of the other party too?

[ErnieH.]

What is the problem here??? Aston is lier? I don't think so, I have bought things from him before and he is very nice. Nobody force you to buy from him, he ain't no Gucci ADs, even if he "lie" on the list price, one thing for sure is that you can get better price from him than buying from Gucci boutique.... so what is the big deal???

The problem here is a lack of ethics, why is it, only after I said I would go check to see what the retail price was, that was when he started apologying and calling it a misunderstanding? Half Price is 50% not 45% or 55% but 50% but heh if you do not want honesty in advertising here on SG ROC then let it be. No wonder no one has to post pics of watches they are selling here, you get away with what you can get away with here, it seems.

As for the retail price, I suspect it to be below 2500, or why else is he calling it a misunderstanding and apologising? Once I prove the official retail price is below 2500, what happens then, business as usual?