Pa**ions Watch

[KuchingKu]

During good times, when rolex and panerai prices are shooting up every week, some dealers tell their customer to quickly buy cos prices will keep going up. Some also said 'Don't scared', if you don't want it within a year, I will take it back at 90% of the sale price, blah blah. I even know of a shop that had this return policy written on the reciept.

Then came 2008. When many people started bringing in the watches for 90% return cash, some shops closed or owners cannot be found. Some shops that did not close, the owners had to bargain cos as price drop all over, they cant fulfil their 'promise' of taking back at 90% of sale price.

So watch buying can never be an investment, though price are like shares....what goes up must come down, what goes down will come up.

So in Pa****** case, he shoots too fast and when proven wrong, act tough and play taichi.

[feilong108]

to me watches are for pleasure nia...investing no way man.....

[burnz]

in all honesty, i somewhat empathise with Pa***** on this. for some of us who do a fair bit of client-facing and sales in the course of doing business, we will all admit that at some point, we may not necessarily give our honest opinions (without lying outright) in a bid to garner business. hence the reason for the term caveat emptor i.e. buyers beware. i've done a fair bit of sales in my line of work, and hence my instinctive reaction when talking to a salesman trying to make a sale with me is to overwhelm him with scepticism and cynicism.

just look back into the lehman minibonds disaster with the local banks here in the not too distant past. while i understand that many investors may have lost significant chunk of their savings in those minibonds, i honestly did not have any sympathy for them because most of them had not bothered to do their own due diligence on these investment products. there is no such thing as a sure-win, sure-make-money kind of investment, watches included. if one had bought into watches because the seller says it's a good investment, then it's no different from the uncle/auntie on the street who decides to buy stocks or structured products like minibonds based solely on the advice on some young punk sitting inside a bank who knows jacksh*t about the market and is just looking to meet his/her monthly sales quota.

buy what you know. if you don't know and just buy what others are telling you to, then be prepared to live with it. i don't wish to be stereotype my fellow singaporeans and generalise such behaviour, but i've seen it on several occasions in both the young and old and i find it worrisome.

[Passions]

Ladies & gentlemen. I've observed that this thread has been ongoing. Let me set the record straight, there are a few or at least one of you out there who's out to malign me and my company including family.

Let me ask, does anyone of you here know me personally? I don't suppose so and since several years ago, I've stepped back to handle the administration, leaving the sales to my staffs.

If you people bother to read or have read my numerous articles, I have never advocate that watches are for investment. In fact, I always tell everyone; journalists, clients & friends that never buy watches as an investment but buy what you like.

If you want investment with returns then look into something else with a faster & higher returns. Investment=risk, so do your own research, make your own decisions and never listen to pure marketing, sales pitch & in this case, rumour.

Collecting watches is a hobby and a hobby is for fulfillment. It is a journey and an experience similar to people collecting stamps, antiques, cars or anything they fancy.

Yes, there are chances for you to profit on watches but rare. Like all things, you need to study the market, understand the demand and supply then be quick. Not greedy.

Back then, I issued the statement in my website because I saw that many people came to me for help not because of clients returning watches (thank goodness!)

It was the strangers who came to cash out with us but a lot of them were mad because what they bought in 05-08 were suddenly left with less than 50% of what they paid and we have people taking Q-nos for valuations. It was simply so tiring for us back in those months. Our phone was ringing virtually every minute and answering the same questions, to make things worse, some even hang up on us! Hey, we're not a helpline centre.

We do not call the prices, it's the market.

Eg. a certain fashionable+branded chronograph rose to sudden fame & issued numerous limited editions. I always told people that it's madness to pay over S$30K for a non precious metal and especially premium above retail when the regular version sells for just S$12K. Well, today, you see them trading @ half price and may not even sell!

I saw the ugly side of greedy people in the heydays of pre-08. People were rushing out, queuing to snap up the latest and immediately auctioning away their prized possessions. They were lofty & expect nothing less than a good return for their "investments"!

Not that I'm jealous, it's never my character to compete in a mad rush. I don't even like to queue for that famous hawker stall, settling for others that can fill my hunger first. Time can be used for better purposes. I'm glad that we did not follow trend and never stocked up on premium priced watches. Our fellow Thai dealer lost about half a million just on a certain Patek model.

My personal clients will know that I never push my products to them. Instead, I always ask them to go home and think about it first then call me again because I want them to be completely satisfied and make an informed purchase. That's why we see very little returns since day one of our business.

In fact, most, if not all of our clients did not do a fire sale during the crisis but actually waited gingerly to buy from us because we could deliver them good buys.

Trust me, last year's recession was not bad. It was more serious in the Asian crisis & we were there.

Unlike others, we also do not promise a "Buy Back Program" upon sales and never write into our invoices since our establishment. Why? Simply to protect ourselves & you, because we don't know the market tomorrow. I'm not God

If that watch you bought could fetch more, it would make us silly to buy it back @ 90 or 80% from what you paid for. It is a fact that many of our clients have broke even or even made some money from us and of course many have lost as well.

We have survived a few "global crisis" and remain strong. We are also the first pre-owned watch company in the region to go international and we are delighted to make Singapore proud. We maintain very good relationships with the major brands and service centres because we earned it & we have also supplied few vintages to the Rolex private museum. Naturally, we attract a lot of jealousy so please make your own matured & informed judgement and not to jump into conclusions without getting the facts right.

Jonathan Tee of Passions

jon@passions.com.sg

[KuchingKu]

Unlike others, we also do not promise a "Buy Back Program" upon sales and never write into our invoices since our establishment. Why? Simply to protect ourselves & you, because we don't know the market tomorrow. I'm not God

If that watch you bought could fetch more, it would make us silly to buy it back @ 90 or 80% from what you paid for. It is a fact that many of our clients have broke even or even made some money from us and of course many have lost as well.


Sorry if I did not make myself clear. I was not refering to you when I mentioned the buy back scheme from a few shops. In general, my post was not about passions but general some shops.
I retract my last statement which was just a speculation

[Passions]

This guy & his entire family has been telling story A then & story B now.
They are nothing more than a dressed up Sungai Road flea mart trader.
Btw, once not too long ago, these family are buying & selling at thieves market for a long time over & that's how they got started..

If he thinks watch business is no longer profitable, then why not exit the mart all together.

We do not welcome these people who buy at the cheap by telling ppl that watch is not selling & later still sell as if there's not downturn.

In fact we don't need these grey mart trader when most watches can be bought at a go at all ADs in Spore & worldwide.

Why let the AD earn & grey trader earn again?

Also, don't forget, it's this type of people that tell us that certain brand & model watches are a sure bet for appreciation & speculation and this lead to insane price increase in the mart recently, right?

Why the gloom & doom now?

Fred Tan. I've kept quiet about this and have consulted my lawyer months ago, what you've spoken on this forum against us is defamation and I am prepared to take you to court for this but we set it aside because we don't have time for squabble.

You are obviously a "dealer" trading in watches as well with a turnover of few hundred thousands a year. Have you registered your business, do you have a 2nd hand dealer's license, do you buy insurance & what kind of warranty do you offer for your clients? I serve you respect but you have obviously crossed the line here.

Yes, it is a fact that I started my hobby and business from the flea market and I am proud of it. This is well documented in the Business Times article & in our website. Back in the early 90s when I was student, every regular vendors in the flea markets, antique dealers and watch traders knew me because I gave them business and they respected me.

Without them, I would not be where I am today but do you people really think I could find diamonds in scraps? Childish thoughts.

Our success is through sheer hardwork and a bit of luck. I work over 12hrs days, 6 days week including holidays even before my NS days. So, our accomplishment today is actually embarrassing when others could have done better. Some of my friends in banking are getting over a million a year, plays golf on weekdays & go to Ferrari for driving school. Jealous? No, envy, yes! Can u be like them? Do your best & not resentful, it only ridicules yourself.

I've also mentioned that certain brands are for "investments" but these are long term keeps and never short, did I tell you to pay above retail? We are also not the one that lead the market to pay huge premiums for watches. How I wish we are but who are the ones getting the stocks & calling the prices when times are good? Certainly not us, we're just a broker for the buyers & owners where owners calls the reserve.

What you've said above are misleading and defaming.

Apologise now to me, my company and my family. You can speak ill of people but you DO NOT involve their family!

Jonathan Tee of Passions

[Passions]

Unlike others, we also do not promise a "Buy Back Program" upon sales and never write into our invoices since our establishment. Why? Simply to protect ourselves & you, because we don't know the market tomorrow. I'm not God

If that watch you bought could fetch more, it would make us silly to buy it back @ 90 or 80% from what you paid for. It is a fact that many of our clients have broke even or even made some money from us and of course many have lost as well.


Sorry if I did not make myself clear. I was not refering to you when I mentioned the buy back scheme from a few shops. In general, my post was not about passions but general some shops.
I retract my last statement which was just a speculation

Thank you, sir. We all have opinions. It's alright.

[Seventh Son]

Well, I agree that its the market forces calling the prices and premiums and in this case, my heart goes out to Passions after reading thru this entire thread.

[Fred_Tan]

Dear Jonathan Tee, family & Passions: My apologies & remark retraction

Fred Tan. I've kept quiet about this and have consulted my lawyer months ago, what you've spoken on this forum against us is defamation and I am prepared to take you to court for this but we set it aside because we don't have time for squabble.

You are obviously a "dealer" trading in watches as well with a turnover of few hundred thousands a year. Have you registered your business, do you have a 2nd hand dealer's license, do you buy insurance & what kind of warranty do you offer for your clients? I serve you respect but you have obviously crossed the line here.

Yes, it is a fact that I started my hobby and business from the flea market and I am proud of it. This is well documented in the Business Times article & in our website. Back in the early 90s when I was student, every regular vendors in the flea markets, antique dealers and watch traders knew me because I gave them business and they respected me.

Without them, I would not be where I am today but do you people really think I could find diamonds in scraps? Childish thoughts.

Our success is through sheer hardwork and a bit of luck. I work over 12hrs days, 6 days week including holidays even before my NS days. So, our accomplishment today is actually embarrassing when others could have done better. Some of my friends in banking are getting over a million a year, plays golf on weekdays & go to Ferrari for driving school. Jealous? No, envy, yes! Can u be like them? Do your best & not resentful, it only ridicules yourself.

I've also mentioned that certain brands are for "investments" but these are long term keeps and never short, did I tell you to pay above retail? We are also not the one that lead the market to pay huge premiums for watches. How I wish we are but who are the ones getting the stocks & calling the prices when times are good? Certainly not us, we're just a broker for the buyers & owners where owners calls the reserve.

What you've said above are misleading and defaming.

Apologise now to me, my company and my family. You can speak ill of people but you DO NOT involve their family!

Jonathan Tee of Passions

Dear Jonathan Tee, family & Passions:
Here are my sincerest apologies & remark retraction for the above misleading remarks:

I hereby tender my sincere apologies for all my misleading & defamatory remark against you, your business & especially to your family.

I understand & take full responsibility that have offended you & defamed you in a bad & negative manner here in this forum with my wrongful, irresponsible & untruth defamatory remarks above that could have affected your business & cause you unneccesary distress.

I hereby fully retract my above remarks that you said one thing previously & different thing now as it's not true & uncalled for from me.

I also would like to retract all my negative remarks about your, your company Passions & your family in my above irresponsible & uncalled for remarks as it's untruth & defamatory in nature that will damage you, your family & Passion's integrity that you all have work so hard to build upon.

I fully understand that my irresponsible & untruth negative remarks here have put you, your business & your family in bad light & much distress.

I hope you, your Passion team & your family will accept my small apology as it's never in my intention to defame you, your family or your company's integrity in this forum or any other means of media or damage you intentionally with malice intent.

I understand no effort on my part can correct what I have done to damage your family, your company (Passion) & your integrity and all that I can offer is just my sincerest regret & apologies.

I hope we can move on as this in an unfortunate incident that'll never happen again.
This is the only incident that I can recall & I fully retract and apologize for this one off remark that I shouldn't have made against you or anyone.

I also have not defame or offended you thru anyone, or any means of media or forum here & anywhere else before or after this incident and I hope you can appreciate this one of infraction as a one of mistake from my part & accept my sincerest apologies for all the damage it has cost you, your family & Passions.

Kindly let me know if this apology here will suffice. Again kindly pls extend my apologies to your family & Passions team.

Thanks.

Regards,
Fred Tan

[watchpassionist]

Dear Jonathan Tee, family & Passions:
Here are my sincerest apologies & remark retraction for the above misleading remarks:

I hereby tender my sincere apologies for all my misleading & defamatory remark against you, your business & especially to your family.

I understand & take full responsibility that have offended you & defamed you in a bad & negative manner here in this forum with my wrongful, irresponsible & untruth defamatory remarks above that could have affected your business & cause you unneccesary distress.

I hereby fully retract my above remarks that you said one thing previously & different thing now as it's not true & uncalled for from me.

I also would like to retract all my negative remarks about your, your company Passions & your family in my above irresponsible & uncalled for remarks as it's untruth & defamatory in nature that will damage you, your family & Passion's integrity that you all have work so hard to build upon.

I fully understand that my irresponsible & untruth negative remarks here have put you, your business & your family in bad light & much distress.

I hope you, your Passion team & your family will accept my small apology as it's never in my intention to defame you, your family or your company's integrity in this forum or any other means of media or damage you intentionally with malice intent.

I understand no effort on my part can correct what I have done to damage your family, your company (Passion) & your integrity and all that I can offer is just my sincerest regret & apologies.

I hope we can move on as this in an unfortunate incident that'll never happen again.
This is the only incident that I can recall & I fully retract and apologize for this one off remark that I shouldn't have made against you or anyone.

I also have not defame or offended you thru anyone, or any means of media or forum here & anywhere else before or after this incident and I hope you can appreciate this one of infraction as a one of mistake from my part & accept my sincerest apologies for all the damage it has cost you, your family & Passions.

Kindly let me know if this apology here will suffice. Again kindly pls extend my apologies to your family & Passions team.

Thanks.

Regards,
Fred Tan

WELL DONE FRED

You have became humble since your last fights, spats and argues here with other forum members. Since your last major squabbles with members like Kuchingu, 5210 and ITSC ,you have stay low and quiet for a while.

Welcome back and good to see you have apologised for the unnecessary remarks you made to Passions. We all would like to hear you say some words of apologies to the many members here that you have wrangles with before...

Make friends here and not enemies

[Fred_Tan]

Apologies? Anytime dude.....I'm back till end of e week.

WELL DONE FRED

You have became humble since your last fights, spats and argues here with other forum members. Since your last major squabbles with members like Kuchingu, 5210 and ITSC ,you have stay low and quiet for a while.

Welcome back and good to see you have apologised for the unnecessary remarks you made to Passions. We all would like to hear you say some words of apologies to the many members here that you have wrangles with before...

Make friends here and not enemies

I already make peace with most of guys & gals in a mini-GTG in Geylang & other place (not Lrg 18)...
Itching to go Geylang & other place with John Fish & Co
Anyone wanna join me for coffee?
I can apologize to all, no condition.
I'm very free & want to catch up with u all.
Japan was fun but no watch to buy.
Yen is 13 yr high
Got freebies

[newbie09]

I think this thread has been here long enough... Hope the mod will close this thread...

[YeoKimChoy]

Good Afternoon to the Owners of SG-ROC, Moderators, Members and fellow friends.

My name is Yeo Kim Choy, although I don’t post here (low profile guy)
I do regularly checks on this site, great site, very informative and resourceful website….and I must add, with lots of local favour from fellow members.

This is my first posting….
The reason I pen this as I think the comments were hurtful and defamatory against Jonathan and the company – Passions.

I do not know Jonathan very well, but I stand by him to say he deserved what he is today. Way back in the 90s when his shop was in Sambawang and then in Clarke Quay, he had made a name for himself based on the Passion he had for watches….combining collecting and selling.

I fully understand sometimes we might write things not meant to be…maybe in humour or in moment of pretentious, but never personal attack of malice, untruth, names, company or family.

My name is my honour, when I write, I choose my words carefully and make sure what I write are facts that can be substantiated.

Jonathan is an Honest Businessman.

Thank you
Yeo kim choy

[watchpassionist]

Power

POWER!

The power of internet and SG-ROC.

We have Mr Yeokc(freelance), ace-time Andrew(Delfi), Watchlink sam and ben(far east), Passions Jonathan(funan), arena adrian(balestier), collectors haven Kenneth chen(vip), AMG paulGoldenlandmark), chuanwatch henry(Goldenlandmark), simliampawn(bedok) and too many to mention , login to sg-roc selling watches and reading the forum talk .......

Many old birds and big time watch players here now, don't play play

I LOVE IT.

But.... hope the mods will remove this post cos unfair for more readers to read this PASSIONS post and then have a negative view of them.
We should always listen to both parties and since it was clarified and apologies made, i think is just fair to close it and stop further comments and criricisms of others.

[Fred_Tan]

Hold on there, mods, dun close e thread yet

Jonathan Tee has not seen my retraction & apologies yet.
Pls wait for him.