Is This Practice Getting More Common...?

[triton]

im not sure if you misread my post, i mentioned that seller proceed to buyer's choice of watch technician. as a buyer i wont even ask seller to open the case, etc. even if im a seller, i wont open also.

i will instead suggest that the buyer find a watch technician of his/her choice to get the watch checked before proceeding.
to protect a seller's interest, i will ask for full payment of the agreed transacted price before the watch is handed over to the technician. on the agreement that if all conditions is agreed prior the check. if the buyer is not comfortable with such agreement, then i dont deal.

Abt the part that he watch may be faulty or not, I think unless its a shop with a watchmaker, the seller can't teally promise much. I mean to be fair the seller is not a watch maker who can pop open and ensure the movement is all good, timing and water resistance is ok. Personally for me, after purchase, go for a full service. At least thats what I do after I am sure abt the watch. ie: whats the pt of arguing if a nice dial is ruined by water ingress for instance. I wouldnt take the chance. So I usually factor that cost in. (2-300)

[ac_wong75]

To get back to point, on the concerns of IC. It is correct that we as sellers or buyers should not need at any juncture show your IC or reveal your personal details. That is a matter of privacy and all persons reserve to right to protect that.

There is no telling what the other party might do with the information on hand and to me this has to be made clear when we do the deal. To protect yourself from dud deals which some of the folks have encountered recently, It is correct that we deal at a reputable watch maker as triton has pointed out or at relevant Service centres if the amounts are large enough and worth the while(up to buyer to decide) Sellers should oblige that and that should be made the common practice rather than signing forms and ICs.

IMHO, this so call common practice and approach is wrong and frankly as sellers or buyers here in this forum maybe we can practice this and set as example going forward and thereby help set the norm right.

All above is dependent on whether you know the person, I will not ask my best buddy selling me his watch to go down with me to RSC unless we have time to kill and catch up over coffee..

Not trying to sound like double standard and unfriendly but if I met a buyer or seller for a the first time I will need to be on guard and hence should practice the above.

[triton]

on the topic of using iTrader, i initially wanted to write a guide on how to use the iTrader. then i stop because i believe we are all adults and should know how to make the best use the iTrader.

[Ryuden]

i will however politely decline to have my details handed over as the buyers do not have such rights to my information. i will instead suggest that the buyer find a watch technician of his/her choice to get the watch checked before proceeding.


to protect a seller's interest, i will ask for full payment of the agreed transacted price before the watch is handed over to the technician. on the agreement that if all conditions is agreed prior the check. if the buyer is not comfortable with such agreement, then i dont deal.

If someone were to ask for a copy I will reject - I am just not comfortable with someone that I am not familiar with at all holding onto a copy of my IC.


If buyer is comfortable with the watch and the info provided, we deal.


If buyer is still not comfortable, I very much prefer we don't deal at all.

i met with similar seller who ask me to sign an agreement for the watch that i'm selling to ensure my watch is not faulty and etc which i dun feel comfortable even thou the watch has no issue and called off the deal.


in the end i was being accuse of hiding the fact that my watch is faulty and etc which i just let him be.

To get back to point, on the concerns of IC. It is correct that we as sellers or buyers should not need at any juncture show your IC or reveal your personal details. That is a matter of privacy and all persons reserve to right to protect that.


IMHO, this so call common practice and approach is wrong and frankly as sellers or buyers here in this forum maybe we can practice this and set as example going forward and thereby help set the norm right.


Not trying to sound like double standard and unfriendly but if I met a buyer or seller for a the first time I will need to be on guard and hence should practice the above.

All I can say is WOW...looks like the majority share my views...

These are the exact same points I was trying to express...

Thanks guys.

[Ryuden]

What can one do with a photocopied NRIC? Not sure why OP is so concerned and likewise why people want a copy of sellers' NRIC.

Concern because it seems like this practice is getting common and maybe I wasn't aware that it is the norm now?

I don't feel comfortable giving my IC to be copied and if you see my recent respond, the season participants also shared the same sentiment as I am. Most, if not all who replied, rather back out from the deal than just going with it and some even got accused of trying to sell a faulty watch. See the problem here? By not providing one's IC does that mean that the person is hiding something?

And I am not sure myself why would people want a copy of seller's IC. I am wondering the same exact question myself.

[Ryuden]

on the suggestion of a seller's check section, it is like i said before same/similar to iTrader. the point now is how to get people to use it. i take effort to write step by step on several things in the forum faq. but it seems that not many people bother to even go to the section to read it.

on the topic of using iTrader, i initially wanted to write a guide on how to use the iTrader. then i stop because i believe we are all adults and should know how to make the best use the iTrader.

Exactly what I though you would say. Human being human, we want the shortest way possible yet bears exceptional results. I would think the iTrader is an excellent background check but how effective is it, I don't know. I would think more than 80% of my feedback scores are from season forum participants whom most I still kept in contact with. Which also means that the fairly new participants are the ones who doesn't seems to care much about the iTrading to even leave a feedback what more to use them as a reference checking source.

I totally get what you mean.

[Ryuden]

you will be surprise how many pm and emails i get daily from members asking me why i cannot post in this forum. where to post, etc.

Cant help but to chuckle when I read this...

[Ender]

what is relevant to you(seller) may not be relevant buyer, vice versa.
the statement you just made will raise question.

agree, so like what I also indicated in my post, therefore buyer should open mouth and ask ...

[triton]

i see that most feedback is too short or rather not informative enough. words like being punctual. decisive. ease of deal would help compared to A1 gentlemen. this is because "A1 gentlemen" it does not provide enough "insight" about the seller.

it is effective only if members make it effective. the system wont be effective if members don't make it effective.

most buyers don't realize that it is also beneficial for themselves because if member is a buyer with many positive feedback, it will give the next seller whom he/she deals with more confidence. i have ask some sellers to hold a watch for me for a week for one reason or another. i am not sure is it because they have seen my iTrader and know that i have dealt with several sellers before and there is no negative feedback.

Exactly what I though you would say. Human being human, we want the shortest way possible yet bears exceptional results. I would think the iTrader is an excellent background check but how effective is it, I don't know. I would think more than 80% of my feedback scores are from season forum participants whom most I still kept in contact with. Which also means that the fairly new participants are the ones who doesn't seems to care much about the iTrading to even leave a feedback what more to use them as a reference checking source.

I totally get what you mean.

[triton]

you cannot have said it better. when i was in university, my lecturer told me on the first day of my first year, my unit of my course and said that if you don't know, you have to open your mouth and ask. if you need help, you have to tell others you need help. if not how does others know how you need help and how to help you.

then when i ask for help on some assistance on the software that i need to use, the lecturer ask me have you Read The Manual. then the lecturer said, people don't just write the user manual/help manual for no reason.

agree, so like what I also indicated in my post, therefore buyer should open mouth and ask ...

[taxico]

whao, i'm not alone. buyers often ask me to write, sign and understake some sort of sales guarantee. some buyers even have home printed forms!

if i'm buying and the watch comes with the original guarantee card/paper, i won't bother even asking to look at ID. otherwise i may ask if i'm unsure just to see what their reaction is. if they hesitate then i don't proceed with the purchase.

my stance as a seller: proof of sale is fine; a guarantee is not. sighting of ID is fine; a photocopy is not.

[pegasi]

Interesting discussion.

So soon later we will see in sellers' post a statement "IC copy collectors please buy from shops", after the clause "lowballers stay away"

Joke aside, I believe most people including the buyers who asked for a copy of the IC would feel uncomfortable in giving out such info/document, and I agree with some members that it is more about privacy. Not to mention IC, would you feel fully comfortable in giving out your home address to a stranger, or let him take a picture of you even if you know for sure there is nothing wrong with what you are selling? Or would you feel a little insulted/disrespected?

For me, if I cannot trust enough a seller or his watch or my own judgement and authentication is not an option, I would not proceed with the deal. Will having a copy of the seller's IC makes any difference? Maybe yes, but I will never ask for it. The reason is simple - Do not do unto others what you would not want others to do unto you.

[Oceanklassik]

A very relevant thread. I have, too experienced (thankfully only once), a buyer who wanted me to pen down my particulars in full as well as the transaction details, and thereafter, walked with him to the RSC to verify the watch authenticity! A little extreme I would say. But it ended well. I was firm and he wasn't too pushy. The watch was authenticated at RSC and the buyer paid me in full even before collecting the watch.

I think this boils down to proper commmunication before and during such transactions. I feel that asking for a person's personal information is too much and if you, being a seller, is uncomfortable, just walk away. If the argument is about safe-guarding a buyer's interest, what then for the seller?

Good discussion

[Ryuden]

whao, i'm not alone. buyers often ask me to write, sign and understake some sort of sales guarantee. some buyers even have home printed forms!

Same here. Prepared printed forms!

A very relevant thread. I have, too experienced (thankfully only once), a buyer who wanted me to pen down my particulars in full as well as the transaction details, and thereafter, walked with him to the RSC to verify the watch authenticity! A little extreme I would say.

Say no more. Its extreme alright! Gladly it turns out well.


Thanks for sharing your experience guys. And I thought its only happened to me. Looks like handful of season participants went through the same thing too.

[Ryuden]

So soon later we will see in sellers' post a statement "IC copy collectors please buy from shops", after the clause "lowballers stay away"

Possibility? Maybe? No need reference check and iTrading scores already. IC copy enough. Lol.