Should I be flattered or.........

[triton]

sorry, my mistake i mis-read your original post. my apologizes.

thank you for pointing out.

Since Where is my post I mentioned 10 boxes for sale?

[pegasi]

To the TS, I know you started blog on DIY and start criticize/revealed how No good other watch winder are.
My friend (not Bro Louise) who had factory manufacture furniture, so together we had decided to manufacture this box just to see what is the cost here, and to our surprise this was a whopping profit margin almost a 400% can anyone imagine here, even Rolex/Panerai watches does not have this kind of profit margin. There is no wonder why u dont have a proper job and full time doing this, where people like us have to suffer with bosses just to earn few Ks a month. I admit the process of making the box is long, but actual manhour on it is only about a day, you can earn 300$ in a day, why do you still need a job for?
You should have give friendly price to the Bro here, instead you're using the trust that community have in you, to mark up the price sky high. Even famous box marker Rainer don't sell so expensive.

We only made 2 boxes, one for me and one for him, he decided not to use the box, thus me posting up for sale, this was never meant to be mass production for sale but we might consider doing it since the profit is damn good, but rest assure it will not be 400% profit.

You should have send me a pm, and we could have settle this graciously instead you started a war but crying father crying mother here.

Since you want to create a war here, you can rest assure I will forward your comments to the watch winder owner, he can start a lawsuit with you anytime.

I will withdraw the sale of the watch box, moderator could kindly help to close the thread.

I'm Sorry to have dragged Bro louise into this, pls rest assure the 2 Nick's are 2 different person.

In such situation I think it is better to just talk facts.

"a whopping profit margin almost a 400%" is not fact, as you don't know for sure what kind/grade of materials have been used and the cost paid by TS.

"actual manhour on it is only about a day" is not a fact but just your assumption.

"you can earn 300$ in a day" is not a fact, due to the above mentioned. This statement may also mislead others to think that TS make $300 everyday, which is not a fact. And what about the time spent in R&D/designing of his products?

Even if the profit is very high, who is to determine if it is overly priced or sky high? The answer is, the consumers themselves. To say that ten10 "uses the trust that community have in him to mark up the price sky high" is, in my opinion, an insult to the wisdom of people like me who buy from him.

I fully understand your anger, if what you claim about why the boxes are made is truth, but I think you have over-reacted. I believe the community here would like to see a amicable settlement to this issue.

We don't need another war.

[kenkelvin]

Yes, I agree with Pegasi. Do not start another war ok. Been here, done that and settled with haha. It just not worth it. But what I like to know is, who is actually right or wrong? Or maybe it just a misunderstanding? On a side note, sorry k. Long time no come here Liao cause kanna hit by gold craze recently haha

[GadgetGuy]

Good to have information disclosed. Buyers then can make their own judgement. No need to get nasty.

[mojojojay]

well from the look of the box , exterior with a sub (seems to link to panerai no matter how u look at it wonder if time and effort creating an image to link to panerai is hurt) , front plate bearing florriglia x mas (italian commado unit which panerai build some huge ass watches for and still links to panerai no matter how u look at it , wonder if the time and effort creating a specialist force to bear the logo was hurt), interior with 8 watch slots 7 chambers for straps and 2 chambers for tools (apart from holding afew more straps and watches it looks like its meant for panerais , wonder if they are hurt for the time and effort making a watch box to hold their brand). and in case if u haven notice , everything screams panerai . wonder if anyone notice all these and calls PANERAI the originator to comment who's right ?

ask apple, rolex and LV - they'd tell you the originator is always right and the copycat is always wrong

[watch_r]

I will write a final word in this thread, after that I'm done with it, and will not comment anymore I hope.

This was never meant for sale, as I had emphasized again, only 2 were produced, due to my friend not wanting to keep it, thus was up for sale.
TS ain't the submarine on your box look familiar, opsss that was from Panerai, did they even know this, that u are using their logo for your own product.
And I also know you are working and have contract with Panerai, shall I do like what you did, sent them an email on this?

And I'm sure your assigment with them will be terminated immediately.

[kenkelvin]

I just wanna know. Who copy who? Not interested to know if ten10 copy from other brands or what. That will be another thread, another discussion. Did ten10 copy watch_r and Louie or watch_r and Louie copy ten10 design? Be it for own use or for commercial gains does not justify the facts that it is copying. The designs r so similar. Unless u tell me all of them have similar taste? This is serious integrity issue.

[kenkelvin]

you very blur ho? Didnt read post by the original poster first page and enter ask so many questions?wasted my time read your post pui!

Bro relax lei. There are so many versions that I do not know which is which? No need get so angry k

[eeyer]

you should be happy.
we are proud of you!

[Tricolore]

- decided to remove what I've mentioned, lest some people think that I am not objective in what I want to say -

[pegasi]

- decided to remove what I've mentioned, lest some people think that I am not objective in what I want to say -

That shows that you are mindful of your words. Such quality does not come by nature.

A certain Ms Yan from this forum taught me this more than a year ago: "If there isn't any good thing to say, don't say". At times I still forget.

[wolfeyes1974]

i despise counterfeits aka 山寨 'mountain village copies'
see wiki definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanzhai

no matter how cheap they sell or how closely they are made to copy the original products, they are just copycats who try to reap benefits from the creativity of the originators

so why is some people so supportive of 山寨 products eg fake iphone or fake rolex - very simple - they are primitive consumer misbehavior - they think they get a good deal at a low price - truth is, its gang robbery in broad daylight

copyright or no copyright registered is another issue
IPOS just makes the recovery a bit easier, but damage is already done

shame on these copycats
*spit*
*spit*

my few cents worth..

i hope i don't sound rude here...but many people behave this way. Let me give you an example: Do you fit your Panerai with their original leather straps (asso/JV/Gator) or do you buy "similar" straps to fit your real pam just because they're cheaper? Aren't compatible straps "copycats"? Of course, i'm not referring to customed "python", "ostrich", "colourful" straps that OEM Pammy straps doesn't have in its range..these are exceptions

I wonder at times why the hoohaa in this case when many members here used non-original straps mounted on their precious timepieces? There're a lot of watch boxes "similar" in design. A member here is correct to say that some boxes here seem to be inspired by Pammy.
While i empathize with bro ten10, it hurts to spend time and efforts to make this box...but there's no copyright applied for it. Especially in general consumer products - there're a lot "inspirations", "fakes" and "similarities" (whatever terms used by people, blunt or subtle).

I think the support and empathy displayed by many members here to bro ten10 is great thing and very commendable but how many of us are truly "supportive" of OEMs? When we point a finger at something/someone, 4 fingers are pointing back at us.

Primitive consumer behaviour?

[pegasi]

my few cents worth..

i hope i don't sound rude here...but many people behave this way. Let me give you an example: Do you fit your Panerai with their original leather straps (asso/JV/Gator) or do you buy "similar" straps to fit your real pam just because they're cheaper? Aren't compatible straps "copycats"? Of course, i'm not referring to customed "python", "ostrich", "colourful" straps that OEM Pammy straps doesn't have in its range..these are exceptions

I wonder at times why the hoohaa in this case when many members here used non-original straps mounted on their precious timepieces? There're a lot of watch boxes "similar" in design. A member here is correct to say that some boxes here seem to be inspired by Pammy. Primitive consumer behaviour?

While i empathize with bro ten10, it hurts to spend time and efforts to make this box...but there's no copyright applied for it. Especially in general consumer products - there're a lot "inspirations", "fakes" and "similarities" (whatever terms used by people, blunt or subtle).

I think the support and empathy displayed by many members here to bro ten10 is great thing and very commendable but how many of us are truly "supportive" of OEMs? When we point a finger at something/someone, 4 fingers are pointing back at us.

Valid point, James. At least it makes me rethink my position in this issue. I am not sure if I stood up because of "supportive" of OEMs.

I think I stood up to support a friend, who livelihood is threaten.

And yes I do at times buy homage or copied products, or whatever you may call them.

[TanWL]

I have to agree with you that "many people behave this way", but does it means it is correct. Yes and No. Because of our Asian culture we are not bought up to respect individual IP. Only until recent years we hear alot of IP.

If such cases were to happen in a ang mo place. I wouldn't be surprise that all will put up their hands to condemn copycat with or without copyright applied. Copyright only favour the rich, poor inventor were got money to apply copyright.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Are we brave enough to make a different.

(This is something that I also need to change)

[wolfeyes1974]

山寨 means the design is copied exactly

there are alot of aftermarket straps that have their own designs that is totally different from panerai straps
eg tedsu ammo, ray hornback, kaktus drifter, landa, dirk, d9, GSD, JNS just to name a few

Like i mentioned - i'm not referring to those that pammy OEM can't provide hence they're considered exceptions (their quality may/may not be better and i'm not questioning about their quality here). undeniably, there're also a lot of similar pammy lookalike straps around which members bought..there're also a lot of pammy-alike buckles for example? While i've heard of some of the names of the strapmakers that you've mentioned here, i'm not entirely familiar with their product lines/variations because i've never bought any non-oem straps. i hope i don't sound snobbish but it's just me that i prefer everything original and doesn't mind paying a bit more. You know, it's like if you own a car then don't fret over ERP charges, parking fees and etc because it's all part of onwership.

I'm not referring to the "technicalities" or subtle differences here - comparison on what some of the aftermarket straps vs OEM - but the principle of supporting OEM as stated in your post because supporting similar looking non-oem/copy cats is considered primitive and daylight robbery. While i understand your position and strong conviction against copycats but yet i feel we should all look at our own behaviours and be responsible for our word/actions before pointing fingers (this is not directed to you). Why do we only support ten10's products but have a different standard when it comes to other things?

Supporting ten10 because it's his livelihood and we know him is very commendable but in reality it's unfortunate that his products are subject to copying because they're general consumer products (not proprietary technology). And consumers will go for a watch box that meets basic function and at the most reasonable price or affordability. Yes i would buy a watch box from ten10 but i'll also open myself to options that provide the same functionality, offers similar quality and perhaps at a cheaper price? Everyone consider different factors when it comes to a purchase.

I'm not perfect and i don't support piracy. i buy pirated dvds and download songs for my iphone but other than that i make it a point to buy original stuff as much as possible. doing my little bits.

i just feel that there's no need for words war and hoohaa about this because i didn't see many sales thread from Watch R selling a lot of these watch boxes (merely one because like he explained that's because his friend didn't want it anymore). Perhaps this could have been easily clarified through phone/facebook since TC already know who's the person who posted this watch for sale in the first place? Sueing here or there, irresponsible words, harsh tones, any form of intimidation is totally unnecessary.

i look forward to a friendlier forum where information/threads serves to help members understand more about watches and cultivate friendships.

cheers